Casino Royale has eliminated its 100X odds at Craps

[Alan Mendelson]

Casino Royale, which became famous for offering 100x odds on pass, don't pass, come and don't come craps bets has reduced the maximum odds bet to 20x.

While very few gamblers actually bet 100x odds it was an option for high rollers who wanted to reduce the house's mathematical "edge" to the tiniest of percentages.

I only know of one player who bet the $5 flat bet with 100x odds and watched him lose more than $20,000 in short order betting what he thought was a mouth-watering mathematically sound wager.

Details of the new 20x odds are on the Casino Royale website here: http://www.casinoroyalehotel.com/gaming/

I should mention that the average "odds bet" at craps is said to be double odds, with most casinos offering 3x 4x 5x odds and a few offering 10x odds.

The Riviera had 1000x odds and I know a high roller who dropped a bundle there too after telling me it was a "dream opportunity."

[regnis]

Here in chicago all of our casinos but 1 have 100x odds. The other one has 10x odds. When I was playing, not only did we often get to the full odds, but we would have to increase our bet so that we could increase our odds. On a $5 flat, my initial odds were 200-250. Therefore, on 5,6,8,or 9, after 3 hits, I had to increase the flat tp $10 to cover the odds. On the 4 and 10, if the 1st one came hard, my odds immediately go to 500 and the next one requires an increased flat bet. Since we have put bets here, you can always add to the flat.

There was one group of about 10 guys that murdered them 1 night betting way more than what I bet as described above. They hit them for over a million. But they reserved a table for them every day and they generally lost big every day so i assume the million hurt but didnt put them in a negative overall for that group.

[regnis]

Years ago they had a great 100x game at the old Maxim Hotel. I had a huge day there one time and was asked to leave. The dealers were pissed because when I knew the heat was on, I was tipping generously to try anything not to get tossed. They pretty much had action on all bets (under my control), and I was pressing every other for them. Finally, the pit boss made me stop betting for the dealers--he said they had to all be paid and down, no pressing. So I just put them on top of my bets instead and the dealers understood and worked with me. But soon after they tossed me and even tho pass and come bets are contract bets that cannot be taken down, they took them down, gave me the $$, and escorted me out. I had to send other people in to cash my chips.

[Dan Druff]

100x odds is NOT a great opportunity. It just reduces the house edge to nearly zero -- but the house still has a tiny edge. It also greatly increases variance for the player.

If you want to play optimal craps, play a high-odds game and bet low limits, and then lay maximum odds when a point is established.

You will still lose in the long run, but only a little bit.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, let me ask you this: why even bother to bet the odds? The odds don't improve your chances of winning. So why put more money at risk?

[Dan Druff]

Dan, let me ask you this: why even bother to bet the odds? The odds don't improve your chances of winning. So why put more money at risk?

They definitely give you a better chance of winning in the long run. They reduce the house edge to near zero, because odds bets are even-money bets.

The Pass/Don't Pass and Come/Don't Come bets are much worse than even money, but if you place 100x your bet when laying odds, this causes over 99% of your total bet to be even-money, while less than 1% of your bet is at the house edge. This effectively reduces the house edge by a factor of over 100.

Of course this makes variance HUGE, so my suggestion is to start with as small of a base bet as allowed, and then lay the maximum odds. This will bring down the variance, because your overall bet won't be all that much higher than what you were originally betting without odds.

Let me give an example.

Let's say you like betting the Pass line $100 each time.

Instead, find a $1 table with 100x odds (not easy to find, I know), and instead make $1 Pass bets and lay 100x odds for $100. This will make your total bet $101, which is similar to your $100 Pass Line bet, but with much better odds!

It is important to understand that you will still be playing at a slight disadvantage, even with this method. So don't use this as a method to make money -- just use it as a way to almost bring yourself to even odds with the casino!

[Alan Mendelson]

The problem with odds having "even money" is that they don't have an "even chance" of winning.

As I've said before (because I am a full odds better at 3,4,5X tables) why do I lose so much money instead of losing just pennies when I play?

[Dan Druff]

I don't know what you mean by an "even chance of winning". Are you saying that you don't win 50% of the time? That's true, but you get paid at full odds when you do win.

It would be like if we played a game where I pick a number from 1-10, write it on a piece of paper, and you guess it. If we played that game, you would lose 90% of the time, but if I paid you 9x your bet (plus gave you your original bet back) when you won, we would break even in the long run. However, in the short run, you could go through a brutal streak of 100 or more bets where you don't guess my number (really unlucky), or go through a really lucky one where you guess it 3 or 4 times out of 10 (really lucky). So variance would be very high, but if we played a million times, we would always end up almost exactly even. Our expectation would be even -- neither of us would have an edge over the other, ignoring any possible psychological tricks to where you would notice me preferring certain numbers over others, or whatever.

Your goal at the casino should always be to play at the lowest house odds, with a level of variance you can afford.

Let me put it an even different way.

Would you rather play 500 hands of $1-per-credit 8-5 Jacks or Better, or 100 hands of $5-per-credit 9-6 Jacks or Better?

I already know your answer. You'd rather play the 100 hands of 9-6 at $5-per-credit, because the odds are much better for you to win.

But guess what? The variance at the 500 hands of $1-per-credit 8-5 game is much lower! So your chance of losing really big is higher when you play the $5 game at 9-6, but in the long run, the $5 9-6 game is much better!

Same thing with laying odds on craps. Increases variance big time, but lowers house edge big time, as well.

So as I said, the best approach is to find a really low limit, high "odds" table, and then place the minimum initial bet, and lay the maximum odds.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, I'm actually playing devil's advocate with you about craps. Yes, I play full odds. Unfortunately the math is deceiving. When we play craps with full odds we don't lose the "pennies" that the math says we should lose. We usually lose, depending on the odds, hundreds or thousands of dollars. ON THE OTHER HAND when we win we win so much more by betting full odds.

I think the important point for everyone to remember is this:

1. Odds betting does not make you win.
2. For each particular "play" it is better to have as much on odds and as little as possible on the flat bet. As an example: it is better to have $5 flat and $20 odds than having $25 on the flat bet with no odds. You do this because the "odds portion" is paid more and flat bets are always paid even money.

I think all the other talk about odds lower the house edge -- as true as it is for mathematics -- means nothing to a player who keeps losing.

And just as a side note, about your video poker analogy: Given the same amount of money, I would rather play Bonus poker because you stand a chance to win more at Bonus poker than you do with Jacks or Better. While Jacks or Better has a higher expected payback on each individual hand, there are more "bigger winners" on Bonus poker without much additional risk.

[CaptainDAve]

Need some help for my future big roll haha. On a table with a max 5000 bet and odds 3,4 an 5x odds can you bet 3,4 or 5 times the max pass line bet of 5000 that would equal to 15,20 or 25000 dollars.

[Alan Mendelson]

Need some help for my future big roll haha. On a table with a max 5000 bet and odds 3,4 an 5x odds can you bet 3,4 or 5 times the max pass line bet of 5000 that would equal to 15,20 or 25000 dollars.

Yes, that would be correct unless there is some other "maximum bet" or "maximum payout" restriction.

don't feel awkward asking such questions. I often ask what the max hardway bet is when I am at a table and I am dreaming of the parlay of a lifetime.

thanks for joining.