Las Vegas Railway Express X Train bails out of downtown

[Alan Mendelson]

After revealing problems and delays with renovating the former Amtrak train station behind the Plaza Hotel and Casino in downtown Vegas, officials of the Las Vegas Railway Express hinted this week that their plan now is to have a train station and hub in North Las Vegas.

North Las Vegas?

Not only will the X Train be slow (this is not a high speed or bullet train, but a conventional train running on current freight rails) but now it will pick up and deliver passengers in North Las Vegas which is a distance from downtown and The Strip which are the two major destinations for travelers from Southern California.

If you ask me, what was a very good idea has now become not as good an idea. A train to North Las Vegas just doesn't have the appeal, and adds the cost of a taxi or limo to the Strip or to downtown. Flying or driving is starting to look more appealing, again.

Read the article from the Las Vegas Review Journal here:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/view/no...orth-las-vegas

[Alan Mendelson]

Another article about the move to a North Las Vegas train station: http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2013/ju...__utmk=7883825

And note that a start of train service now is considered to be mid 2014 instead of January 2014.

Meanwhile, the stock this morning (XTRN) has fallen to a new low at 6.7-cents a share, and I am not surprised. It seems that every announcement coming from XTRN follows this patter: we are making moves that will make us a bigger company, but we are going to start service later. Well, is this anyway to run a railroad?

[regnis]

You probably don't need arci to tell you the ER of an investment in XTRN

[Alan Mendelson]

You probably don't need arci to tell you the ER of an investment in XTRN

XTRN ended the day at 7-cents even, up slightly from its all time low of 6.7-cents. What I can't figure out is how there is still a value after so many postponements, so many delays, and so many changes to its plans? And to be completely up front and honest here -- while I have done work for the company in the past I am out of the loop with current operations and have had no information about current plans or the idea of moving the station to North Vegas. It surprises the heck out of me.

[Alan Mendelson]

On the "Travel / Vacation" page of our main website (see: http://alanbestbuys.com/id141.html ) I wrote an analysis of the latest news about the X Train including the plan to have its Las Vegas train station in North Las Vegas instead of downtown. The Chairman of the Las Vegas Railway Express sent me a text saying that my article was "disappointing" and the North Las Vegas station will actually get passengers to the Strip "faster." Please see the article and I asked Michael Barron of the X Train to send me more information and I would publish it.

[Alan Mendelson]

Vegas X Train today sent out an email blast promoting new videos to explain its North Las Vegas station project. In the video below the project is described as having five separate platforms for passengers and trains. Five? I know that the company has been talking about expanding the X Train concept beyond a Southern California route to include other cities but are five separate platforms for simultaneous arrivals and departures needed at this point? Here's the video:



A surveyor also described service tunnels that will allow passengers to use the various platforms and then move to a central area for using limos and buses and cars to get to their hotels. This is the first train station project for this surveyor. The video is below.



There are many of us who have been anxiously awaiting this type of luxury rail service between Southern California and Las Vegas. I personally would like to see one train now instead of multiple trains a few years from now.

I also would rather see one train now using the downtown station and existing tracks and route and then an expansion to a new and larger facility for more trains once the business model has been proven to work.

Logistics is a new challenge for the X Train. At present the plans call for the Southern California station to be in Fullerton and there will not be a stop at the downtown Los Angeles station. This will add "commute time" for everyone in Los Angeles who wants to take the train, but the Fullerton station is ideal for Orange County residents and for Vegas residents wanting to visit Orange County amusement areas and the beaches. Another challenge is getting Southern California passengers to accept a train that will deliver them to North Las Vegas and then have to take a limo or taxi or shuttle to The Strip or downtown.

[Alan Mendelson]

Michael Barron, the CEO/President of Las Vegas Railway Express, has sent me his comments and I promised to publish them in full. They are below and also on the "Travel / Vacation" page of www.alanbestbuys.com (see: http://alanbestbuys.com/id141.html ).

Some of you have been asking why we picked the train station location in North Las Vegas. Some have even suggested that such a selection will negate our business plan and people will not ride a train to Vegas that stops 4 miles north of the strip to let people off. I can understand some of that but actually, it really doesn't matter where the station is in Vegas as long as you can get to the strip quickly & easily. And that is exactly why we picked this location over 4 others we had.

Our mission is to get you off our train upon arrival and into your transportation and on your way to your hotel as fast as we can. To do that, we needed a lot of room. A lot. It had to be wide enough to park up to 9 trains and up against the railroad tracks and have enough room to stage over 100 cars, transportation limos and busses, enough to unload 7 airplanes at one time. It had to be big.

The fact was, there just wasn't any space available anywhere else that would work. Believe me, we tried. We couldn't get enough land downtown. South of the strip put our traffic unload into the middle of the traffic jam heading into Vegas on Thursday & Fridays.

Here's something else to think about. Most city transportation stations like airports are not even in the city they serve. LAX is in Culver City, 30 miles away. Denver is even further out.

So forget the city limit dotted line on a map. If our station was downtown, it would still be 4 miles from the strip and with street traffic, slower to get there.

This is a great location and when you pull in to Vegas anxious to get to the hotel we will get you there faster than any other way. Promise!

[Alan Mendelson]

The train is starting to look almost as inconvenient as flying from LA.

Originally the X Train was going to depart the train station in downtown Los Angeles. But now there is no stop in LA and the train will leave from Fullerton in Orange County. Add the trip to Fullerton to the time of the train ride. I estimate that time at one hour, maybe longer. I've never spent an hour getting through security at LAX and the airport is less than a half hour from where I live on the West Side. If I drive to Burbank, about a half hour away without traffic, security takes about ten minutes and parking is cheap and convenient at the Burbank airport.

Originally the XTrain was going to arrive in downtown Vegas at the old Amtrak station behind the Plaza Hotel which was perfect for staying at downtown hotels and only a short taxi drive to the Strip. Now the Vegas station will be in North Las Vegas which might add just a few minutes to the trip to the Strip but it also makes it necessary to make a trip to downtown hotels.

When I have a limo waiting for me at the airport from a Strip hotel (usual cost is about $35) I can be at my hotel usually in 20 minutes. I can't imagine a limo from a train station in North Las Vegas taking the same amount of time or less -- it must be a longer transfer.

The cost difference between air travel and the X Train doesn't appear to be much different either. The expected X train fare will be $99 one way. I just checked some sample flights on Southwest from LAX to LAS and the one way fare is about $110 each way around the weekends.

The X Train is supposed to take 5-6 hours, the flight time is about 45 minutes. Will the entertainment on board the train really make time fly? Or will fly time actually be the shorter amount of time needed to travel?

Now, all of these comparisons are moot if you prefer to have the convenience of your own car -- then you'll drive. Or, if you don't want to fly -- and then the train or maybe Megabus or a Party Bus become options for you.

The X Train folks are going to have to come up with a convincing marketing plan for the folks in Los Angeles County. For Orange County residents the obstacles are fewer.

[Max A Million]

Will passengers be subjected to pat downs or forced to pass through "screening" machines? Maybe that can be a selling point if they don't enforce pat downs.

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't know of any bus or train service that requires security screening similar to what goes on with air travel. That is an interesting point you brought up, too. I also shudder to think that someday even ground transportation requires security checks. It's a crazy world and anything can happen.

[regnis]

Years ago this was supposed to be a high speed train. It sounds like 5-6 hours is not a high speed train. Did that change? How long does it take to drive (if you avoid Friday afternoon and sunday return).

[Alan Mendelson]

Xtrain was never a high speed train. It was always a conventional train with luxury rail cars riding along the existing tracks.
The high speed project actually is supposed to span Victorville to Vegas and would run on a new high speed rail that would be built parallel to the I-15.

[Dan Druff]

This sounds like a huge fail. Nobody is going to want to be dropped off in ghetto North Las Vegas and then be forced to take an expensive cab ride to the strip.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan on top of what you're saying: why would they delay the start of the XTrain again to build a North Vegas station to handle nine separate trains when their plans are for one train and a limited number of trips per week and there is already a train station downtown that only needs renovation, plus tracks and a siding which only needs some cosmetic improvements, and they could be up and running?

What still hasn't been mentioned yet, and I think this will be next, is more money will be needed to build the new North Vegas station. The last round of financing was to have money to pay the railroad for having additional side rails to allow the Xtrain to pass the slow moving freight trains on the existing track and to pay for the rail cars and other start up costs. But there was no mention of a North Vegas rail station to accommodate nine trains, plus underground tunnels for foot traffic and service vehicles -- so where is that money going to come from?

[Alan Mendelson]

Another article about the X Train and its plans for North Las Vegas:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/view/no...vegas-platform

Now it appears that the North Vegas city council won't vote on this till August at the earliest and if you read the comments that follow the article there is some question about the numbers floating around for 80,000 passengers.

My question is why plan for 9 trains before you get even one going? And if the initial schedule is for two travel dates per week, when do all of the other trains run?

Look, I think it's a good idea that unfortunately is taking a bad detour with a station in North Vegas that has to be built big for 9 trains. I have to keep asking the question: why didn't they stick to the original plans of a departure from downtown Los Angeles (instead of Fullerton) and a route to downtown Vegas at the old Amtrak Station behind the Plaza.

It's hard enough to bring back train service, but do they have to reinvent the wheel at the same time?

Also, the article talks about the XTrain trying to line up ground transportation for the train in North Vegas... an obligation they wouldn't have if the train arrived in downtown.

It seems like they are asking for more trouble.

[Alan Mendelson]

XTRN shares back to the 52-week low price of 6 cents. You can't plan for a railroad with 9 trains coming and going at the same time in North Las Vegas when you can't get even one going.

[regnis]

Time for us to raise some $$$ and start a helicopter service between LA and LV

[goldtc]

Hello Alan,

I have been staying in the North Las Vegas area for about 9 months, and I am very familiar with the area where the X Train is now planning to put its station.

My understanding is that it will be on Craig Rd. This is very close to a good-sized casino and hotel called the Cannery. If people want to stay on the strip, about 1/2 mile up Craig Road is the entrance to the 15 Fwy. The trip to the Strip takes about 20 minutes, if that from the this part of the Las Vegas. You would not be snaking through city streets, so the trip goes pretty quick.

You also pass right by downtown Las Vegas, so that is only about a 7 to 10 minute drive via the freeway.

In response to your comment about driving from Los Angeles to Fullerton to pick up the X Train, you could skip that step and take an Amtrak or Metro train to the Fullerton station. I've done that trip a ton of times (I'm from the Fullerton area) and the trip takes 30 minutes whether you travel by Metro or Amtrak. However, Amtrak offers more trips to/from Union Station/Fullerton.

As for flying time vs driving vs the train. I rarely fly anymore because I take luggage when I travel. I have to drive from OC to the airport...with traffic at least 1 hour. Then I have to check-in at least 2 hours before my flight (now I've killed 3 hours)...then about one hour to fly...(now we're up to 4 hours)..then I have to pick-up my luggage and catch a shuttle to rental car...another 30 min...then check-in at the rental car location and pick out a car..Altogether I've spent about 5 hours of my life for the "one hour" flight. And ...not only did I pay for the airfare, but now I have to pay for a rental car.

So, for me the X train makes more sense. I don't have to spend an hour in traffic to catch the train..I don't have to arrive 2 hours early...Yes, I may be on the train for 5 hours or so, but it really looks like a "party" atmosphere, which will put me in a great mood for Vegas.

Oh, and I have traveled via the Megabus...I LOVE that bus. It is NOTHING like the Greyhound. The trip goes from Union Station to Las Vegas and I have gotten fares as low as $1.00 each way...NOTHING can beat that rate, and the buses are very comfortable. If you want more comfort, just pay for 2 seats. You can bring one carry on per seat and one checked bag per seat. You can not pay extra to bring extra luggage. To bring extra luggage you have to buy additional seats on the bus.

I have traveled by train across the country (to Chicago) and I love train travel. I think if more people were exposed to train travel it would be more popular.

But, I'm straying a bit from the topic. All in all I think the X Train is a great idea, and the North Las Vegas location will not be "deal breaker, " if the information is presented correctly to the public.

The train is starting to look almost as inconvenient as flying from LA.

Originally the X Train was going to depart the train station in downtown Los Angeles. But now there is no stop in LA and the train will leave from Fullerton in Orange County. Add the trip to Fullerton to the time of the train ride. I estimate that time at one hour, maybe longer. I've never spent an hour getting through security at LAX and the airport is less than a half hour from where I live on the West Side. If I drive to Burbank, about a half hour away without traffic, security takes about ten minutes and parking is cheap and convenient at the Burbank airport.

Originally the XTrain was going to arrive in downtown Vegas at the old Amtrak station behind the Plaza Hotel which was perfect for staying at downtown hotels and only a short taxi drive to the Strip. Now the Vegas station will be in North Las Vegas which might add just a few minutes to the trip to the Strip but it also makes it necessary to make a trip to downtown hotels.

When I have a limo waiting for me at the airport from a Strip hotel (usual cost is about $35) I can be at my hotel usually in 20 minutes. I can't imagine a limo from a train station in North Las Vegas taking the same amount of time or less -- it must be a longer transfer.

The cost difference between air travel and the X Train doesn't appear to be much different either. The expected X train fare will be $99 one way. I just checked some sample flights on Southwest from LAX to LAS and the one way fare is about $110 each way around the weekends.

The X Train is supposed to take 5-6 hours, the flight time is about 45 minutes. Will the entertainment on board the train really make time fly? Or will fly time actually be the shorter amount of time needed to travel?

Now, all of these comparisons are moot if you prefer to have the convenience of your own car -- then you'll drive. Or, if you don't want to fly -- and then the train or maybe Megabus or a Party Bus become options for you.

The X Train folks are going to have to come up with a convincing marketing plan for the folks in Los Angeles County. For Orange County residents the obstacles are fewer.

[Alan Mendelson]

goldtc thank you for joining us and for taking the time to write this post. I really appreciate it. Going from Union Station to Fullerton will make sense for some people but not for those of us on the west side of Los Angeles (including the South Bay and Santa Monica, and it will make absolutely no sense for those living in the San Fernando Valley. Any way you cut it the ride to Union Station will take at least a half hour (probably longer), you have the cost of parking there (I think it's about $10-$20 for a weekend), and then you have the train trip to Fullerton and allow time to make your connection with the X Train. I am going to estimate that it tacks on an extra two hours. Heck, that's almost half the car ride to Vegas from along the 405.

I think Fullerton is a great departure point for everyone in Orange County and yes there are plenty of potential travelers living in the OC. It's just not going to be a "first choice" for LA west siders and those living in the San Fernando Valley. Too bad, I was looking forward to it.

I'm not sure if it is really going to be a "party train." We'll have to see what plans they come up with. I know that in discussions with management ideas about comics and magicians and showing movies and having a bar car with sports broadcasts has been mentioned. The casino games have been nixed per the demands of the railroads. Party? I doubt there will be dancing and you will have to pay for cocktails -- so forget about an open bar.

I traveled across Canada and the US by train when I was in school, one summer. No matter what they have planned, there is a limit to what you can do on a train. There just isn't that much space.

The X Train people said on Facebook that they have not ruled out adding a departure from Union Station in downtown LA. I hope they do. I do see a reason to go to Fullerton to catch the train -- when I have to travel alone and I am concerned about fatigue and driving alone, and when there is bad weather.

And thanks for the comments about MegaBus. I had a report on MegaBus on my TV show. I wouldn't mind taking it, but my Vegas buddy (my son) says he gets "bus sick" so we've been driving. One day I will try the bus.

[goldtc]

Hello Alan,

Thank you for responding to my post. Just a follow-up about the Megabus. I am one those people who get "bus sick," too. However, this is not an issue in the Megabus. These are HUGE double-decker buses that hold 72 passengers. They have reclining seats, free Wi-Fi, and there's a restroom on the bus. The are air-conditioned, in most cases to the point of being almost frigid. The the trip from Union Station to Las Vegas (Near the Airport) is approximately 5 hours. My only complaint is the bus never seems to stop for a break anymore. Instead it drives straight through to Vegas. Granted, you get there a bit quicker, but it is nice to get out and stretch. On the other hand when you are paying as little as $1.00 in each direction, there is really little room for complaints.

Oh, and the Megabus actually goes to several locations, all departing from Union Station. You can travel to San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose. Once you reach those destinations you can book another bus (usually for the next day) and continue on to Sacramento, Reno, or Sparks NV. I believe the bus leaves 3x per day, everyday from Union Station to all destinations, and the most I have ever paid in one direction was $25.00 (to Las Vegas). However, I have heard people paid as much as $35 in on direction during the Easter holidays to San Francisco.

As you can see I am a HUGE fan of Megabus. Prior to the Megabus I traveled 2x on Greyhound and after my 2nd trip to Phoenix, AZ about 5 years ago, I swore I'd never go near Greyhound again, and I haven't. Anyway, I'm fairly certain you son will not get ill. There's not rocking and shaking like on the garbage Greyhound. The Megabuses are really beautiful and all new.

Enjoy, if you do go!

Sincerelry,
Theresa (aka goldtc)

goldtc thank you for joining us and for taking the time to write this post. I really appreciate it. Going from Union Station to Fullerton will make sense for some people but not for those of us on the west side of Los Angeles (including the South Bay and Santa Monica, and it will make absolutely no sense for those living in the San Fernando Valley. Any way you cut it the ride to Union Station will take at least a half hour (probably longer), you have the cost of parking there (I think it's about $10-$20 for a weekend), and then you have the train trip to Fullerton and allow time to make your connection with the X Train. I am going to estimate that it tacks on an extra two hours. Heck, that's almost half the car ride to Vegas from along the 405.

I think Fullerton is a great departure point for everyone in Orange County and yes there are plenty of potential travelers living in the OC. It's just not going to be a "first choice" for LA west siders and those living in the San Fernando Valley. Too bad, I was looking forward to it.

I'm not sure if it is really going to be a "party train." We'll have to see what plans they come up with. I know that in discussions with management ideas about comics and magicians and showing movies and having a bar car with sports broadcasts has been mentioned. The casino games have been nixed per the demands of the railroads. Party? I doubt there will be dancing and you will have to pay for cocktails -- so forget about an open bar.

I traveled across Canada and the US by train when I was in school, one summer. No matter what they have planned, there is a limit to what you can do on a train. There just isn't that much space.

The X Train people said on Facebook that they have not ruled out adding a departure from Union Station in downtown LA. I hope they do. I do see a reason to go to Fullerton to catch the train -- when I have to travel alone and I am concerned about fatigue and driving alone, and when there is bad weather.

And thanks for the comments about MegaBus. I had a report on MegaBus on my TV show. I wouldn't mind taking it, but my Vegas buddy (my son) says he gets "bus sick" so we've been driving. One day I will try the bus.