Total Rewards Offer: $1000 Gas or $1000 Free Play

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, thanks for taking the time to write that. But I never had a problem with hosts. Hosts have intervened for me to get me, they have gotten me extra rooms, they have made bookings for me, they have taken care of relatives when I was not able to make a trip there, and when my reward comps did not cover the bill I was able to call my host and have the charges wiped out anyway.

Look, if a host doesn't fit what you do and what you need, then go ahead and do it on your own. But I've had hosts go to promotional kiosks after I checked out to swipe my card to get extra bonuses that I forgot about. I've had hosts bend the rules so I could use more than one promotion per trip. And I've had hosts get me extras that if I tried to get on my own I wouldn't get. I've had hosts get me show tickets and restaurant reservations in special VIP sections that you also can't get from a computer. I saw Celine Dion's shows in Vegas TWELVE TIMES and never even used one comp dollar for the tickets.

And going back to the year when I had my kidney transplant, I had a host at one casino tell me that even though I didn't make it to their casino for six months they would preserve my "comp tier" just as if I had visited my normal amount during the year. No computer will do that for you.

Oh, and Rob Singer, you don't know shit about my relationship and friendship with that host. STFU.

[russkg]

Alan:

I like my host too! He takes care of us every time we see them in Vegas and we take care of them in Hawaii. I get to see him again this weekend which is a part of what makes life so great! Genuine human relationships.

Just adding a few thoughts from the Dalai Lama whoever may be reading this board:

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."

“Every day, think as you wake up, today I am fortunate to be alive, I have a precious human life, I am not going to waste it. I am going to use all my energies to develop myself, to expand my heart out to others; to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all beings. I am going to have kind thoughts towards others, I am not going to get angry or think badly about others. I am going to benefit others as much as I can.”


Aloha!

[quahaug]

alan:

I like my host too! He takes care of us every time we see them in vegas and we take care of them in hawaii. I get to see him again this weekend which is a part of what makes life so great! Genuine human relationships.

Just adding a few thoughts from the dalai lama whoever may be reading this board:

"be kind whenever possible. It is always possible."

“every day, think as you wake up, today i am fortunate to be alive, i have a precious human life, i am not going to waste it. I am going to use all my energies to develop myself, to expand my heart out to others; to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all beings. I am going to have kind thoughts towards others, i am not going to get angry or think badly about others. I am going to benefit others as much as i can.”


aloha!

bah humbug!

[Dan Druff]

Dan, thanks for taking the time to write that. But I never had a problem with hosts. Hosts have intervened for me to get me, they have gotten me extra rooms, they have made bookings for me, they have taken care of relatives when I was not able to make a trip there, and when my reward comps did not cover the bill I was able to call my host and have the charges wiped out anyway.

Look, if a host doesn't fit what you do and what you need, then go ahead and do it on your own. But I've had hosts go to promotional kiosks after I checked out to swipe my card to get extra bonuses that I forgot about. I've had hosts bend the rules so I could use more than one promotion per trip. And I've had hosts get me extras that if I tried to get on my own I wouldn't get. I've had hosts get me show tickets and restaurant reservations in special VIP sections that you also can't get from a computer. I saw Celine Dion's shows in Vegas TWELVE TIMES and never even used one comp dollar for the tickets.

And going back to the year when I had my kidney transplant, I had a host at one casino tell me that even though I didn't make it to their casino for six months they would preserve my "comp tier" just as if I had visited my normal amount during the year. No computer will do that for you.

Oh, and Rob Singer, you don't know shit about my relationship and friendship with that host. STFU.

Alan, I think you are a bit confused about what I was saying.

I am not claiming that hosts are 100% useless.

They do have the authority to do things that the computer and 800 number can't.

Even I have had to ask hosts for help with things in the past.

If you play nearly every trip when a host arranges something for you, then hosts definitely can help you out.

This is because you are doing what THEY want -- essentially giving them the action they require every trip.

It's similar to saying that your really hot, 23-year-old girlfriend is very sweet to you and seems like a great person, but you don't bother mentioning that you also take her out shopping every week on your dime.

Alan, it is not surprising at all that your host preserved your comp status while you were sick. Hosts don't hate it if you don't visit for awhile, especially if they know your reason for not visiting is circumstantial (in your case, health issues) and not due to quitting gambling. It would be incredibly stupid for a casino NOT to work with you to preserve your status while sick for 6 months, as it costs them nothing and it produces major goodwill.

Casinos are businesses.

Hosts are commissioned employees of those business.

While it is possible on occasion to develop true friendships with commissioned employees, in most cases you are just a number to them, but they have to act like they see you as a human being that they care about. Hosts have been doing this for more than 50 years.

Just keep that in mind. I'm not saying you should cease all contact with your host. I'm saying that you need to realize that hosts are parasites who get paid through your expected losses.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm saying that you need to realize that hosts are parasites who get paid through your expected losses.

I think that's a bit harsh. Hosts perform a service for their employers and for their customers.

Are doctors parasites who get paid when you get sick?
Are lawyers parasites who get paid when you get into a traffic accident?
Are accountants parasites who get paid because you can't figure out the tax code and file your return yourself?
Am I a parasite when a company comes to me and says they want to advertise on TV? (Don't answer that one.)

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, since 1999 I've met a total of FOUR hosts at all the casinos I've played in. I was very successful without them, and I had far far far far more comps & freebies than I ever needed during those years. Hosts do not enhance your casino experience any more than a cocktail waitress would. They are one in the same: casino tools utilized for the sole purpose of keeping you playing in the hope of you losing as much as possible during your visit.

[regnis]

Years ago, before there were points, when hosts had power, I refused to use them. I never liked to ask anyone for anything. People told me I was stupid as I was missing out on all the freebies. Hosts were always soliciting me and I took their cards and tossed them. Then at a wedding here in Chicago, I sat next to a host and decided to give him a try. I told him I hated to ask for anything. He looked up my play and said don't worry.We became friends, and I never paid for anything again, including airfare and guests and my wedding, etc. He never once pressured me to play in any way, and I never asked for anything other than if my guests would be covered. In those days, I went to Vegas at least 6 times per year. 2 or 3 of those would be with my girlfriend and there would be minimal gambling and a lot of fancy dinners and shows. That was also never a problem. Same thing with all my subsequent hosts.

Then came the point system and the hosts had their balls cut off. Yes--you need to use your points first--then you get the comps. While they always tell me there will be no prob--that they will pick up everything, I still don't want to ask for anything and so I would just rather pay for a few dinners then ask a host for a comp. I just can't ask--it aint my style.

[russkg]

I just got back after a great week in Vegas! I got my ten $100 Free Play Certificates at the cage and proceeded to play 1 certificate at a time on the past line. It was interesting to see the Free Play Certificate remain on the Pass Line until it lost. I kept playing until all of the ten Free Play Certificates were gone. Color out for the $1000 Free Play Certificates was $1800! Not the $10,000 I had hoped for but still a win is a win. I did come out ahead on this trip and had a great time on a great hand. The dealer and I both enjoyed that roll and I will share that story in a new thread about allowing the dealers to be into the game.

[Alan Mendelson]

thanks for the update russkg. Now, besides turning the $1000 of free play into $1800 directly, how much did you also profit by diverting what would have been passline money into other bets?

Also-- they stuck you with ten $100 coupons? Couldn't break them down to $50s or $25s ??

[redietz]

Here's one for the books -- I agree with Dan Druff and Rob completely on this thread. I don't know if you've read Whale Hunt in the Desert, but it's a good, entertaining start to casting a questioning eye on hosts.

Rob hits the whole thing on the button. Who cares if offers dry up? Do the personal math. As far as Las Vegas goes, rooms are cheap enough that nobody should be concerned about how many rooms CET is going to "donate" to you. Just take the offers, do as Rob says regarding check in/check out, and burn them. If they drop you, guess what? They'll be back.

CET is hemorrhaging money. You think you'll be put on some "oh my God, we'll never offer him again" list? Fat chance.

Plus, and I've said this before, whether Rob is considered a "crackpot" or not, I guarantee his style of play generates maximum offers. Computers see him as an impulsive, lots-of-money-in-little time player. The case can be made that whatever Rob loses by playing non-optimally, he may make up for in comps because casinos perceive him as reckless and a possible cash cow.

When debating Alan on this, one question to ask is, "Is Alan occasionally a paid consultant for CET or other properties?" If he is, then what would his response to Rob's suggestions sound like?

[Alan Mendelson]

I read Whale Hunt In The Desert and I know that I am not a whale. I really doubt that any host is plotting how to keep me happy in Vegas -- or the thousands of other "non whales" who go to Vegas and use the services of a host.

When Caesars cut my offers from $2500 per visit to $850 per visit last year, and I protested, they didn't care that I protested.

Rob has to make this point clear: does he or doesn't he play with a player's card?

I have not given a dollar to any of the companies that I have consulted for. I am not a paid consultant for CET.

[JamieV]

I have to agree with Alan regarding Rincon. There is nothing worse than losing your budget and being "stuck" in Vegas. Also, I've hit 2 five point firebets there on their craps table and multiple 4 pointers. I just recently saw a 6 pointer hit about two weeks ago.

Rincon will always have a special place in my gambling endeavors because it was the first place I ever won more than 4 figures playing craps (go figure). And Fiore is pretty good, especially when comps cover most of the expenses.

Finally, Rincon gives me discretionary comps whenever I play table games; regardless of my comp balance.

[russkg]

thanks for the update russkg. Now, besides turning the $1000 of free play into $1800 directly, how much did you also profit by diverting what would have been passline money into other bets?

Also-- they stuck you with ten $100 coupons? Couldn't break them down to $50s or $25s ??

Yeah They said it was 10 coupons per person so whatever your Free Play was, you get it divided by 10 so I got 10 $100 Free Play coupons. I made about a $1000 on the place bets but nothing excited. later in the week was when that hot roll happened which allowed me to leave Vegas a Winner!

[Rob.Singer]

I have eaten at Fiore and I agree it is a class act.

Alan, the issue about whether or not I use a player's card continues to spiral in various directions, when I've explained it so many times very simply for the past 14 years. I've used a card 99% of the time since retiring from professional play in May 2009; the few times I did not were only because I forgot it, the slot club was closed, and I did not want to deal with asking a pit boss. During my play from 1999 thru 2009, I did not use a slot card when playing my main SPS strategy from around 2005 on, only because I started getting barred from playing at several Strip properties. That solved the issue. However, in 2005 when it happened, I began playing my other four strategies (mostly at lower denoms) with my cards much more often than SPS, which kept the offers rolling in.

Even if offers dry up, as redietz says, they'll be back. I get offers all the time from all over casinos in Nv. where I used to play heavily, and that's just since I gave as many as them as possible my SD address. Additionally, I was never a 7-Stars player at Harrahs--not even close because I always stopped as soon as diamond was attained every year. I've had only a Gold card the past 2 years, and I'm STILL able to make comped reservations for up to 3 night's each at basically most of the properties I used to spread my play around at.

[redietz]

I'm going to paraphrase Mr. Singer here, in terms of making a host comment. You have to ask yourself, "Which would Gary Loveman prefer?" Would he rather everybody behave like Alan, or would he rather everybody behave like Rob? If he prefers everybody act like Alan, then do the opposite.