Hundreds of Threads.......

[mr jjj]

I have started hundreds of threads over the years. Easily in my top 3 favorites (with a TON of replies), is this next question. The current thread I started here made me think of it again. >>>


*Can thinking outside of the box be taught?*

GREAT, GREAT QUESTION!!! In my opinion....... No, it can not be taught. You either HAVE IT or you don't. Like I said earlier, ask the roulette nay-sayers how much TIME they have INVESTED in the STUDY of roulette, go ahead, ask them.

Ken

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm not a naysayer. I just want to know WHY it works? Can you give us a reason WHY these numbers hit?

[arcimede$]

If a numerical roulette system existed that worked you'd be able to describe it from a mathematical perspective. You'd be able to explain why certain numbers would come up more often. Claims that a person is "thinking outside the box" is meaningless without defining the box and showing how that thinking overcomes limitation inherent in the box.

The more you comment the obvious it becomes that you have nothing of any merit to say. You use the Singer technique of asserting you have been successful and claiming others are stupid. But, you never back it up. This is typical of the behavior of con artists.

[Alan Mendelson]

Arc, give the guy a chance. And please, you know how I feel about using phrases like "con artist."

[mr jjj]

"This is typical of the behavior of con artists" >>> You're thinking of people that SELL things, I dont.

I've been through all of this "set-up" for arguing stuff for years now, so arci trying to bait me is a waste of HIS time. I'll ask how it is that he beats the house edge (long term).

If person "A" cannot, that must also mean that person "B" cannot, correct? I love how the H.E. only applies to SOME people (lol). Its not my fault arci if you gave up so quickly with roulette, blame somebody else for your failings in life, not me. As far as "better" numbers go, any comments yet? >>

I have recorded the last 200 spins (00 wheel). I'll pick 3 numbers for you and 3 numbers for myself. The 3 I choose for you are the 3 furthest back hit. The 3 I choose for myself are the MOST hit (hot) in the last 70 spins of that 200.

We bet these 6 numbers for the next 20 spins. We repeat this (with a fresh 200 numbers) over 100 trials and check the results. I have done this ALL MANUALLY, even during Christmas and the TEMPORARILY hot numbers come out ahead constantly.

Ken

[mr jjj]

Comfort is the enemy of achievement.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'll ask how it is that he beats the house edge (long term).

I think Arc will tell you that you can't beat the house edge and that when he plays he has the edge over the house.

[mr jjj]

"I think Arc will tell you that you can't beat the house edge and that when he plays he has the edge over the house" >>> Ahhh, we're gonna play with the words, Kenny like this game.

I can re-word this all week long. (whatever game(s) he plays) does he have an ADVANTAGE (with proof) with the game of his choice? Meaning, with his ADVANTAGE, I assume he is a LONG TERM winner, years and years and years. In other words......casinos FEAR him?

Ken

[mr jjj]

"you have been successful and claiming others are stupid. But, you never back it up" >>> I never called anybody stupid. Can you show me where I said that? ......and guess what? If I have to back it up (proof), then SO DO YOU. Same rules for everyone please. When can we expect to see your proof Arci?

Ken

[mr jjj]

I'm looking for a YES or a NO here >> Can thinking outside of the box be taught? (In regards to gambling, mainly roulette method ideas).

Ken

[redietz]

I mentioned this on another thread, but was dead tired when I wrote it, so I can used the word "craps" instead of "roulette." Let me try again.

I am sure there was an incident in the last couple of years wherein Steve Wynn got taken to the cleaners by some guys who had charted the biases of some roulette wheels. They made a killing in the high six or seven digit range. Wynn had the wheels taken out. Ken, you have any recollection of these events?

[Dan Druff]

Mr JJJ, I am curious how you think numbers can be "hot" on roulette.

It is conceivable that biased roulette wheels can exist, due to some sort of manufacturer's defect. HOWEVER, these biases would stay constant over the long run. That is, the wheel's weakness would NOT be temporarily "hot" numbers. It would be certain numbers that, over a large number of spins (FAR more than 200) could be proven to hit far beyond expectation and regular variance. Even with such a bias, it would be hard to take advantage of this because of the huge variance involved (as well as the fact that roulette moves slowly, so you couldn't log millions of spins to ride out the variance).

Let me give an example.

An unbiased single-zero roulette wheel will hit each number 1/37th of the time.

Let's say that, through charting, you come to the conclusion that number 6 hits about once every 30 times, rather than once every 37.

If you could simply bet number 6 repeatedly in this situation, for a million spins, you would almost certainly come out ahead, as it would pay 36-to-1 every time it hit.

But there would be three problems, as mentioned above!

First, normal variance/randomness/luck could cause the 6 to still hit less than once every 36 times, meaning that you would still lose despite a theoretical edge. (This is how blackjack card counters end up with many losing sessions, and only win over time.)

Second, it would require a large bankroll to make any money, as you would need enough to withstand the variance stated above, to where the luck would eventually even out and you'd make your expected return.

Third, it would require that you somehow play faster in order to get enough spins in to withstand the variance. How many spins do they do per hour in roulette? 50?

My point here is that, even after discovering a biased wheel, it will be difficult to make reliable money.

But you're not even talking about charting wheels for long term biases. You're talking about numbers temporarily running hot, which flies in the face of all mathematics, even if we concede that biased wheels still exist. There is no "temporary hotness" in biased wheels. If the wheel is NOT biased, then any temporary hotness you see is random, and will reverse at any moment.

[Alan Mendelson]

"I think Arc will tell you that you can't beat the house edge and that when he plays he has the edge over the house" >>> Ahhh, we're gonna play with the words, Kenny like this game.

I can re-word this all week long. (whatever game(s) he plays) does he have an ADVANTAGE (with proof) with the game of his choice? Meaning, with his ADVANTAGE, I assume he is a LONG TERM winner, years and years and years. In other words......casinos FEAR him?

Ken

I don't want to be the one to respond for Arc, but Arc says he only plays positive expectation video poker. And if true, then yes, he has a theoretical edge over the casino.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm looking for a YES or a NO here >> Can thinking outside of the box be taught? (In regards to gambling, mainly roulette method ideas).

Ken

Yes, thinking outside the box can be taught. It's done all the time in marketing, advertising, business.

[mr jjj]

"Yes, thinking outside the box can be taught. It's done all the time in marketing, advertising, business" >>> Do you feel it can be done in terms of roulette methods?

Ken

[mr jjj]

"then yes, he has a theoretical edge over the casino" >>> Assuming this is corrrect, is there any PROOF that he does well (or very well)? .........sounds like the guy is blowin smoke.

Ken

[mr jjj]

@Dan Druff >> (00 wheel)...... So if we charted a wheel (non-bias wheel, cough) for 228 spins, would you say that every number will hit 6 times? If no, why not?

Ken

[mr jjj]

"They made a killing in the high six or seven digit range. Wynn had the wheels taken out. Ken, you have any recollection of these events?" >>> No.

Ken

[Alan Mendelson]

"Yes, thinking outside the box can be taught. It's done all the time in marketing, advertising, business" >>> Do you feel it can be done in terms of roulette methods?

Ken

Sure, you can teach anyone anything. But a better question is: when it comes to roulette will this method win or win more money than another method?

Getting back to your method, I still don't understand why you think it will make someone win?

[Alan Mendelson]

@Dan Druff >> (00 wheel)...... So if we charted a wheel (non-bias wheel, cough) for 228 spins, would you say that every number will hit 6 times? If no, why not?

Ken

Random chance says all numbers will not hit equally. Make it simple: roll one six-sided die six times. Will each face show up one time? Maybe and maybe not. But that test means nothing. 228 roulette spins means nothing. 2,228 spins also means nothing. 2,228,000 spins also means nothing because random is random.