7 Stars Cruise

[regnis]

I am a tipper when I am winning at craps. I never tip if losing. But 1 thing that hasn't been referenced here is that a good group of dealers will know my every move and be able to press or take same bet or whatever if they are paying attention. In doing so, they have made me money at times where I was either tired, distracted (read pretty girl here), or for whatever reason did not give them proper direction. They will say Mr. S--no odds. Or they will press where I forgot to tell them and tell me they did or at least ask me as a reminder. So you can talk about intimidation (which is a no in my case), and you can talk about wages, but how about they help keep an eye on me and don't let me go off my system of betting. A few bucks on a hard way or a few bucks on a number ain't gonna kill me and it buys a lot of benefit.

Also, when I have brought my nieces to Vegas (all for their 21st birthdays). I can have them help my niece (play for nickles) while I concentrate on my own game for big money, and the nieces appreciate the attention anyway. It also helps in any dispute--they will usually try to take my side within reason cause they know it will be appreciated by a few bucks.

Now during a massive roll I was having at the old Maxim hotel (was that the name??), a dealer started asking for a few bets. He got nothing. If he were patient, he may have gotten a few but he wasn't doing anything for me and he had not figured out my simple progression. So no--I wont be bullied into it.

[Dan Druff]

I still remember one time at Bellagio, I had my biggest blackjack hand ever, and the dealer got obnoxious with me before I even decided what to tip. I had just sat down a few minutes before that, so it wasn't about a lack of tips prior to that.

I put down $700 on one hand, which is more than I usually bet (the count was high). I got dealt a pair, so I split it. Then I got dealt the same card again. Split. Then I got deal the same card again. Split. So now the hand was 4 ways. Then two of the hands ended up being doubled, so it was a 6-way hand, worth a total of $4200. The dealer was showing a 5. I had a mixture of bad hands (below 17) and decent ones (18-20), but no 21s. Dealer turned over an 8 for 13, drew a 3 to make 16, and then drew an 8 to bust. I won all 6 bets for $4200.

Before I even got paid, the guy next to me (another player) said, "Wow! I hope you tip the dealer big on that one!"

The dealer immediately piped up in a bitchy-sounding voice, "He SHOULD tip big, but I don't know if he will."

She got zero thanks to that comment.

[redietz]

If the goal is to win, then I can't suggest one should tip at table games. If the goal is to be social, then tipping works for that goal. I don't tip for table games. I stopped tipping for slot jackpots about 15 years ago after employees seemed blatantly disappointed by the size of my tip. Therefore -- no further tips. I will tip a small amount after cashing in poker tournaments, but only if it was a smooth experience.

Now I do tip valet pretty well, but I understand they are the best paid people at the non-posh casinos, so maybe I should scale that back.

[Rob.Singer]

I have no idea why anyone tips dealers in any table game. Unless of course they're concerned how they appear to others or the dealer....which is intimidation and is a sign of weakness. Did you go in there to help pay someone else's salary in a direct manner, or did you go in to win some money for yourself? And again, ask yourself the only important question that counts when the word "tipping" gets put into your head by the casino experience: IS ANYONE GONNA COME BY AND GIVE YOU A TIP FOR LOSING?

How people who gamble can't see this is a wonder of the world. Of course, people are funny animals. Once the intimidation factor steps in, all bets are off. Tip at any cost--lest you get stares or can't get to sleep while worrying about how you "must have looked" to other people. Weak players sicken me.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob is not alone. There are many professional gamblers who do not tip, especially in the poker tournament circuit. And like Rob, they aren't very popular with the dealers or with other players. The element of "not tipping" is only the "tip" of the iceberg of their personality and personal problems. Many go bust over and over again.

It seems to me that when a "professional" has to hang on to every chip it indicates they have some financial problems.

[redietz]

If tipping takes a player from positive to negative territory, then the player should not tip. I don't see how that is arguable, unless the player values others' perception of him as a tipper more than winning.

It seems to me that when "non-professionals" have to give away chips via tipping, it indicates they have some psychological problems.

[Alan Mendelson]

It seems to me that when "non-professionals" have to give away chips via tipping, it indicates they have some psychological problems.

What do you mean by "have to give away chips via tipping"? I don't tip when I lose. I tip when I win. How much I tip depends on the win and how I feel about the service I've received.

What are the psychological problems you allege that non-professionals who tip have?

I don't know of any players who would offer a tip if it would put them from positive to negative territory. I don't know of anyone who ever suggested doing that.

[redietz]

First of all, why not tip when losing? What has the dealer done wrong to not merit a tip if you are losing?

Second, would you tip a machine if you won? If the dealer is automated, would you tip him/her? If not, why not? The tips would go into a general fund for the casino that would fund employee pay. So if the dealer is automated, do you tip?

[Alan Mendelson]

First of all, why not tip when losing? What has the dealer done wrong to not merit a tip if you are losing?

I guess you could tip if you lost. I know of players who have tipped when they lost... but it wasn't much of a tip. For example, they bought into a craps game for $5,000 and they lost all but $3... so they leave it "for the boys." Technically that's a tip. I don't tip when I lose, but if at the end of the session I only have a dollar left I might throw it on the table "for the dealers."

I remember one day, years ago, when my son lost his entire buy in at a craps table at Caesars except for three dollar coins... this was when they had the dollar coins. And the dealers said to him "go try it in megabucks." Well, he didn't go to megabucks, but he did go to another slot machine... put in the $3... and hit for $1500.

Second, would you tip a machine if you won? If the dealer is automated, would you tip him/her? If not, why not? The tips would go into a general fund for the casino that would fund employee pay. So if the dealer is automated, do you tip?

I don't tip the machine when I win, but I tipped the cleaning lady who wiped down my machine at Caesars just before I hit a $20,000+ progressive royal. In this case the "dealer" was automated.

But I think you are talking about the automated blackjack games. I don't play them. But I could imagine scoring some big win and then giving something to a porter or to a cocktail waitress on their next visit. In fact, I often tip a porter at the craps table who comes by and clears away ashtrays and napkins and beer bottles from my position at the table -- usually a dollar chip.

Look, it comes down to this: some people tip and some people don't. So far in this discussion I haven't said the non-tippers were wrong... but it appears the non-tippers are telling the tippers that the tippers are wrong.

To the non-tippers: continue not to tip. I don't care. But don't try to convince me that what I am doing is wrong. I was brought up to tip. I tip cab drivers, I tip servers, I tip porters, I tip valets, I tip dealers.

[Vegas_lover]

Look, it comes down to this: some people tip and some people don't. So far in this discussion I haven't said the non-tippers were wrong... but it appears the non-tippers are telling the tippers that the tippers are wrong.

To the non-tippers: continue not to tip. I don't care. But don't try to convince me that what I am doing is wrong. I was brought up to tip. I tip cab drivers, I tip servers, I tip porters, I tip valets, I tip dealers.

Winner, winner, winner!!! Most sensible post of the week.

[redietz]

As I said, I tip valet. I tip cabbies well as I know quite a few. I certainly tip porters, as that has been beneficial to me several times. Alan made some conjecture about the financial state of people who don't tip. I responded by making an identical conjecture about the mental state of those who do.

[Alan Mendelson]

I think there is a big difference between professional gamblers not tipping because of financial reasons, and non-professional gamblers not tipping because of some "mental state." Please describe in particular what the mental state is that you are referring to?

I am finding it more and more difficult to take your comments here as being serious. I think you are argumentative to a fault. It appears you make an effort at being derisive.

[Dan Druff]

I also avoid valet as much as possible -- and not because of the tipping.

I just hate it.

I hate people driving my car.

I hate people parking my car.

I hate the unknown amount of time I have to wait to get my car -- even if I'm Seven Stars and supposedly priority valet.

I always look for self-parking first, and then use valet only as a last resort. This includes Vegas, where valet is free.

[sassycat]

I also avoid valet as much as possible -- and not because of the tipping.

I just hate it.

I hate people driving my car.

I hate people parking my car.

I hate the unknown amount of time I have to wait to get my car -- even if I'm Seven Stars and supposedly priority valet.

I always look for self-parking first, and then use valet only as a last resort. This includes Vegas, where valet is free.

I agree totally on valet parking!!

[redietz]

I think people who concern themselves about tipping have locus of control issues. They are having, to be specific, external locus of control issues. They are concerned how they appear to others. Context is driving their behavior. That was the point of my automated dealer question -- would you tip if no one was looking, including the dealer?

The fact that some people tip after winning, in fact, suggests that context is driving their behavior rather than an aspect of their personality.

By the way, Alan, your remark that professionals who don't tip have financial issues was way, way out of line. You have no basis and no reason to have said that. Poker professionals get grief all the time -- your buddies at Caesars/Harrah's instituted mandatory tipping for WSOP tourneys, which is half the reason poker players want to barf when the subject of tipping comes up. And dealers expect tips on top of the mandatory tips! It's ridiculous.

There's an oxymoron for you: mandatory tipping.

[Alan Mendelson]

redietz, I'm not sure what you think is the mandatory tipping at the WSOP? What I heard was that a players fee amount was removed from the prize pool to pay the dealers. Some of the professionals used that "mandatory fee" as a substitute and justification not to tip.

So please quote for me what is the mandatory tip that you are talking about? And the amount?

Thanks.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob is not alone. There are many professional gamblers who do not tip, especially in the poker tournament circuit. And like Rob, they aren't very popular with the dealers or with other players. The element of "not tipping" is only the "tip" of the iceberg of their personality and personal problems. Many go bust over and over again.

It seems to me that when a "professional" has to hang on to every chip it indicates they have some financial problems.

The problem with that of course is that I'm not talking about pro gamblers. I'm referring to anyone who gambles in casinos. Financial issues aside, advantage players use every cent in their +EV formulas. If they tip then all they're doing is working one side against the other. In my case--and how I train anyone who comes to me--tipping after handpays, tipping cashiers, and leaving cash in those shameless hotel room envelopes, is simply a dumb move done out of intimidation and a lack of self-confidence. I teach players to be strong players, and that first and foremost your most important goal is to take home as much casino money as possible.Wasteful tipping weakens that objective.

[Rob.Singer]

I also avoid valet as much as possible -- and not because of the tipping.

I just hate it.

I hate people driving my car.

I hate people parking my car.

I hate the unknown amount of time I have to wait to get my car -- even if I'm Seven Stars and supposedly priority valet.

I always look for self-parking first, and then use valet only as a last resort. This includes Vegas, where valet is free.

Congratulations. You do what most people who never have much cash on them do, and who usually leave with little to no cash in their wallet. That's also why you and some others here so look forward to those GGWU extravaganzas. FINALLY, something that doesn't cost a fortune.

[Vegas Vic]

No doubt VV. But where you're mistaken is in believing it is the responsibility of the customers of the service industry to make up for the shortcomings of their salaries. I care nothing about them, their lives, their families, or their problems. In turn, they care nothing about me other than the work at hand. They get the job done or they get fired. Whether or not I give them a perceived "entitlement" is irrelevant to the work they are doing for me.

We get it: you are one cold-hearted, penurious SOB and extremely proud of it.

[Alan Mendelson]

That's also why you and some others here so look forward to those GGWU extravaganzas.

Rob, several years ago, when I told you about how the GGWU changed the rules so that play at other TR casinos outside of Vegas were now awarded GGWU points you expressed some regret that you didn't know about the change because you also could have cashed in.

Why are you so sour now on the GGWU freebies? You didn't have to do anything extra to get these benefits? They don't take away from your other comps. They are simply an add-on?

You, of all people, who always tries to take the casinos for everything possible (it's you against the casinos, as we all know) should be all over this.

And since you have been playing with your card recently (since you are no longer a professional using SPS only) you must have points stored up. Why not pick up a free gas card or even some free play? What part of the word "free" do you not like?