Alan, how often do you lose over $2k in Aces and Faces at Rincon

[Dan Druff]

Just curious, because I it seems that there is a pretty high chance of losing $2k or more playing $5 Aces and Faces if you don't hit either several 4-of-a-kinds or a royal.

I assume you usually play 2500 tier sessions, and if you don't that's what I'm referring to -- not the occasional session where you'll quickly get up $2k and leave.

In my play of Bonus Poker and its variants (Ace$, Aces and Faces), I find that I lose around $3000-$3500 in 1000 hands if I fail to hit quads or better. So if I hit enough "quads or better" to recover $3k, I win. Otherwise I lose, and often over $2k.

This can be pretty brutal, but I know you've earned like 400k tiers this year, so you've obviously played a lot more than me.

Or are you hitting enough royals to mostly make up for this? I can't get a royal to save my life, and it's killing me.

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't start at $5. I start at $2 or $1 and move up to $5 when I have won something at lower levels. It is unlikely I would lose more than $2K playing Aces and Faces considering that it's just a day trip there and as soon as I lose my limit I can get in the car and leave.

[Dan Druff]

The $2 option is interesting. I might try that instead of the $5, to decrease variance.

The downside is it will take me 2.5x as long to play, but I can knock out 1000 hands in under 2 hours, so I can finish 2500 hands in about 4-5 hours most likely. That's not terrible. The $1 machine would take like 8-10 hours, and that's way too much.

I am not sure I would enjoy $2 video poker as much, though, because the best result would be an $8000 royal, which would be nice but still not exciting like $20k. And no other hand would be worth more than $800.

I guess it might be a cheaper way to rack up tier credits, though, as it would do away with some of the brutal variance that can occur at the $5 machines.

[Alan Mendelson]

The $2 option is interesting. I might try that instead of the $5, to decrease variance.

The downside is it will take me 2.5x as long to play, but I can knock out 1000 hands in under 2 hours, so I can finish 2500 hands in about 4-5 hours most likely. That's not terrible. The $1 machine would take like 8-10 hours, and that's way too much.

I am not sure I would enjoy $2 video poker as much, though, because the best result would be an $8000 royal, which would be nice but still not exciting like $20k. And no other hand would be worth more than $800.

I guess it might be a cheaper way to rack up tier credits, though, as it would do away with some of the brutal variance that can occur at the $5 machines.

that's the difference between you and me, Dan. I'm playing for entertainment. It's not a business for me. I don't care how many hands I put through the machine in a session.

[Dan Druff]

that's the difference between you and me, Dan. I'm playing for entertainment. It's not a business for me. I don't care how many hands I put through the machine in a session.

How did you rack up 400k (or more?) tiers this year playing like this, though?

Do you really go to Rincon that often?

[Alan Mendelson]

I was very lucky this year playing Aces and Faces at Rincon. I also had eight royals. I also found that with a budget of as little as $400 I was sometimes able to score 2,500 tier points which earned the 5,000 bonus. And since I was a "late night player" I often "double dipped" getting the 5,000 bonus before 6am and then another 5,000 bonus after 6am. And that meant there were actual one-night trips when I put on 20,000 tier points.

I actually played very little craps in 2013 which eliminated an automatic "losing" situation.

[Dan Druff]

I've run really horrible so far at ACE$ at Rincon.

In 6000 hands, my return has been about 92.6%, and that's playing perfect (or at least almost-perfect) strategy. Yuck.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, sorry, I did not edit your post but originally posted my response as an edit. Here is my response:

Dan, without a Royal you can't come close to the return on any game. You've said you've never hit a royal -- so that means you're far behind, whether you play perfect strategy or not.

The only way to "compensate" for non royals is to play with win goals and loss limits and then hope you get lucky doing that.

[Vpnewbie]

Alan, how does this "double dip" work? I don't understand how you received 20,000 tier credits. Wouldn't it be a bonus of 5,000 for every 2,500. Do you get another bonus for before 6am vs after 6am?

[Alan Mendelson]

Vpnewbie if you get 2,500 tier points in one day (24 hour period) you receive a bonus of 5,000 tier points. If you play another 2,500 tier points, there is a second bonus of another 5,000 tier points. So if you play through enough to get 5,000 tier points will get a bonus of 10,000 tier points for a total of 15,000.

If you play above the 5,000 tier points, there is no bonus on the additional tier points. On a couple of occasions I've played 8,000 or more tier points which received a 10,000 bonus for a total of 18,000.

If you know when the casino's day starts and ends you can play above the 5,000 tier points on the second day to earn the extra bonus.

So consider this: play 5,000 tier points on Thursday night and at 6am Friday a new day starts and then play another 5,000 tier points. The two days would earn 30,000 tier points. That's 5,000 from your coin in each day for two days, plus two daily bonuses of 10,000 each.

But you should never play for the sake of getting the bonuses. In other words, don't run to the ATM because you are 100 points away or 50 points away. But if you are lucky and the winners keep coming, enjoy the ride and the bonuses.

I've left the casino a hundred points or less short of a bonus. Yeah it hurt, but when you reach your loss limit or stop loss, you leave. Remember 100 tier points equals $1,000 coin in at video poker and that can be awfully expensive.