Another surprise from Bob Dancer.

[Alan Mendelson]

My family was in the restaurant business, and over the years I have known many restaurant owners... so it makes me smile, laugh and cringe when I hear discussions about ziplocks and taking home "extras" from buffets.

Another way to look at this, I guess, is that the food just gets tossed if it's not eaten.

The other way to look at this is that if there was less waste, and less food was produced, prices could be lower.

One of my good friends in Miami back in the early 1980s opened a chain of buffet restaurants called Rudy's. I don't know if Rudy's still operates -- I looked on the Internet and couldn't find it. I'd like to share the story about Rudy's.

It was a beautiful, clean buffet restaurant that offered all sorts of fresh salads including a delicious tuna salad. You'd pay the cashier, get your large plate and work your way around the buffet. One orbit around the buffet, if I recall. It was a moderately priced place and was trendy and very popular.

And then the "condo commandos" found out about it. The condo commandos were the retirees living in the Miami area who would come in there and pile everything on the plate... as long as it was tunafish salad. In fact, that's all they took was tunafish salad because you couldn't buy and prepare tunafish salad at home at the great price that Rudy's charged.

And then there was Burger King, headquartered in Miami, with a "test restaurant" in the Miami suburb of West Kendall... a middle class community. BK wanted to test a breakfast bar and that's where they did it. If you ordered a breakfast platter such as pancakes you could go to the bar to pile on your toppings and sides including syrups, whipped cream, nuts, fruit... it was quite a spread. And customers did pile it on and on and on and on. I love nuts so I always put whipped topping on my pancakes and lots of nuts. I probably had more nuts than pancake when I ate there.

But at Burger King no one took anything "extra" home. Sure, there was waste that went into the trash, but people weren't walking out with napkins filled with nuts or cups filled with fruit. Maybe it was because parents were there with their young kids on Sunday morning for the breakfast bar which is when it was operating. Maybe the parents were there setting a good example for the kids.

But at Rudy's... the condo commandos (who I would consider those seeking the "advantage plays" in later life stretching their pension and social security checks) walked out of the restaurant with what they could -- while young working folks or couples out for lunch or a casual dinner didn't.

So, it doesn't surprise me that someone who is an advantage player in a casino also tries to take advantage of other things in life. They probably also negotiate harder when they buy a car, they probably squeeze the melons a little bit more in the market, and they probably complain more to dry cleaners in an attempt to get their bill reduced.

I think it's part of their mindset.

[Count Room]

My family was in the restaurant business, and over the years I have known many restaurant owners... so it makes me smile, laugh and cringe when I hear discussions about ziplocks and taking home "extras" from buffets.

(OFF-TOPIC) I have heard from more than one business person that the restaurant business is a very tough business with an abnormally high failure rate.

But at Rudy's... the condo commandos (who I would consider those seeking the "advantage plays" in later life stretching their pension and social security checks) walked out of the restaurant with what they could -- while young working folks or couples out for lunch or a casual dinner didn't.

Rob Singer used to chide Jean Scott for breaking her promise that she would never sell her Indiana condo...Maybe the overriding lesson is to open all-you-can-eat buffets in metropolitan areas with a younger than average population, but still sufficiently far away from college campuses? Less food dispensed for higher profit margins.

[Alan Mendelson]

(OFF-TOPIC) I have heard from more than one business person that the restaurant business is a very tough business with an abnormally high failure rate.

Very true. One of the highest failure rates. Everyone "thinks" they have the magic touch to run and operate a restaurant -- and few understand the hard work, long hours, and small margins that are the reality of the business.

[Vegas Vic]

Very true. One of the highest failure rates. Everyone "thinks" they have the magic touch to run and operate a restaurant -- and few understand the hard work, long hours, and small margins that are the reality of the business.

I retired with 40 years in the industry from entry level as a teenager to upper management, and yes, the work is not easy (if you want to succeed) and the hours are indeed long. You are allowed the luxury of going into work early because you are needed and then go home late for the same reason. Owners/managers wear many hats, so I will touch on just a few: must be on top of a myriad of local & state laws and regulations ranging from labor laws to OSHA to food safety & sanitation; well developed people skills are necessary, not only for dealing with employees, but most certainly the customers; basic accounting in order to understand your P & L statements; marketing awareness...and you could expect to encounter all of this every day. Delegation has its place, but you have to personally keep your finger on the pulse of your business....or watch that pulse weaken away.

The restaurant climate is extremely fickle. I don't have the data for Vegas, but it's well known that the restaurant scene is always changing. What's "hot" today may or may not even be around the next time you come to town.

[Alan Mendelson]

My father taught me that the best restaurant owners knew how to clean the tables, mingle with the customers, buy the food at market, prepare the food in the kitchen, serve the food and be sure that the tables were perfect for the next seating. He said the best restaurant owner he knew carefully cleaned the salt and pepper shakers between seatings.

[FrankScoblete]

Great posts. We have a couple in our village (a small village out of time) who show up at all the free events where there is food. They bring their zip bags (you could put a human body in them!) and shovel food into them. They are rich. I swear.

[Alan Mendelson]

We have a couple in our village (a small village out of time) who show up at all the free events where there is food. They bring their zip bags (you could put a human body in them!) and shovel food into them. They are rich. I swear.

"Advantage schnorers." (See: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=schnorer)

[Dan Druff]

My father taught me that the best restaurant owners knew how to clean the tables, mingle with the customers, buy the food at market, prepare the food in the kitchen, serve the food and be sure that the tables were perfect for the next seating. He said the best restaurant owner he knew carefully cleaned the salt and pepper shakers between seatings.

100% TRUE.

Many restaurants fail because the owners have absolutely no clue regarding customer service.

There are three important elements to a successful restaurant:

1) Food

2) Customer service

3) Location

Many restaurants -- even good ones -- screw up #2 and #3.

Location can be very tricky. A busy intersection is NOT necessarily a great location, if it's somewhere foot traffic is uncommon and more of a place people pass by along the way on a short commute. I watched many restaurants on Pacific Coast Highway in Redondo Beach flop for that reason.

Customer service is a lot tougher than it appears. Many restaurant owners like to think of themselves as the kings of their castle, and tend to blame their establishment's problems on the customer. Here is an example...

I tried a breakfast place. They completely screwed up our order, and they admitted it. The owner invited us to come back a second time and try again, for free.

We came back, and they screwed it up again! The owner came out and acknowledged they screwed up a second time, but rather than profusely apologize or offer us another comp meal, he said, "Well, looks like it just isn't working out between us here. You'd probably be better off elsewhere."

WHAT?!

There was no question that they screwed up, and the screw up was pretty major. He actually told a customer to go elsewhere because THEY couldn't get it right!

Sadly this type of attitude is common in the restaurant industry, which is one reason so many of them fail.

Also, if you read reviews on Yelp of your restaurant and they all say the same thing (service is bad, place isn't clean, management is nasty), then you need to change things IMMEDIATELY or you will go out of business. Strangely, most restaurant owners live in denial and continue their self-defeating ways of service until they go under.

[Dan Druff]

Regarding Dancer, here's what REALLY surprises me:

1) He's staying in a $60 hotel. In 2013, that's a complete shithole, regardless of where it's located. There are probably a few exceptions, but I think it's a fair bet that it was a Motel 6 style place. I can understand staying in mid-level chains to save money (such as the Hampton), but this is pretty indicative that the guy really is broke like Rob Singer alleged.

2) LOL @ stealing a continental breakfast. Those are usually awful, and I don't even bother going down for them even when they're included in my price. It's not like he snuck into a quality breakfast buffet (which would be wrong, but at least worth something). This is like being proud of stealing an Egg McMuffin at McDonald's.

[regnis]

Like many of you, I always wanted to own a restaurant. But I had the misfortune of running several restaurants when their owners became incompetent and later died. Now obviously, I was at a disadvantage as I didn't have a competent owner to learn from. But after dealing with employees and State officials (read thieves here), I have taken the cure. Although maybe a nice tavern.......

And you're right Dan--why is he in a flea bag at that price. And I also eschew the free breahfast even at a Hampton or similar decent hotel. Rather get a small loan for Starbucks

[redietz]

Guys, check out what some folks have added to the Wikipedia listing for Bob Dancer. This is really funny stuff.

[Vegas Vic]

Followup column:

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/1210.cfm

[Alan Mendelson]

Followup column:

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2013/1210.cfm

Well that's quite a defense... but what if you declare those taxable earnings and wins, and what if you don't swipe goodies from a VIP room where you are not invited, and what if you don't swap your Celine tickets for a doctor's treatment (and leave the payment to your insurance)?

We are back to where we started. He's saying everyone else is stealing. Are we all doing that?

[LizzyM]

100% TRUE.

Many restaurants fail because the owners have absolutely no clue regarding customer service.

There are three important elements to a successful restaurant:

1) Food

2) Customer service

3) Location

Many restaurants -- even good ones -- screw up #2 and #3.

Location can be very tricky. A busy intersection is NOT necessarily a great location, if it's somewhere foot traffic is uncommon and more of a place people pass by along the way on a short commute. I watched many restaurants on Pacific Coast Highway in Redondo Beach flop for that reason.

Customer service is a lot tougher than it appears. Many restaurant owners like to think of themselves as the kings of their castle, and tend to blame their establishment's problems on the customer. Here is an example...

I tried a breakfast place. They completely screwed up our order, and they admitted it. The owner invited us to come back a second time and try again, for free.

We came back, and they screwed it up again! The owner came out and acknowledged they screwed up a second time, but rather than profusely apologize or offer us another comp meal, he said, "Well, looks like it just isn't working out between us here. You'd probably be better off elsewhere."

WHAT?!

There was no question that they screwed up, and the screw up was pretty major. He actually told a customer to go elsewhere because THEY couldn't get it right!

Sadly this type of attitude is common in the restaurant industry, which is one reason so many of them fail.

Also, if you read reviews on Yelp of your restaurant and they all say the same thing (service is bad, place isn't clean, management is nasty), then you need to change things IMMEDIATELY or you will go out of business. Strangely, most restaurant owners live in denial and continue their self-defeating ways of service until they go under.

Hi Dan & Everyone,

You see all of these restaurants coming up with complicated menu's or missing the point as Dan stated above and then you look at In-N-Out Burger...5 Items on the Menu (simple) , Very Fresh and Very Delicious! Fantastic customer service! ( which btw I just looked up that they pay profit sharing, benefits and way above average compensation to their people) and none of us mind waiting in a long drive through line right?

It's a booming multi million possibly billion dollar business.

What we want as customers is not that difficult. Now if CET would get this.... jk best. e.

[Dan Druff]

Well that's quite a defense... but what if you declare those taxable earnings and wins, and what if you don't swipe goodies from a VIP room where you are not invited, and what if you don't swap your Celine tickets for a doctor's treatment (and leave the payment to your insurance)?

We are back to where we started. He's saying everyone else is stealing. Are we all doing that?

I read the whole article. The problem is that it's based on two premises:

1) You have probably done something wrong or dishonest in your life, so you have no right to judge him for doing the same.

2) Under-reporting gambling income to the IRS and taking over-advantage of casino perks is equivalent to what he did to that motel.


These are both wrong.

First off, most weren't saying that Dancer was committing a major crime or was a horrible person because of the theft of one continental breakfast. They were just saying that it was wrong, and people were surprised to read about it, given Dancer's supposed success.

His examples were poor.

Casinos are in the business of taking money from their customers. It's not the same as a store or a restaurant, where you pay a fixed price and receive expected goods in return. Casinos exist to give you the wrong impression that you have a chance to win, when in reality you are a mathematical almost-certainty to lose. Therefore, if you find ways to turn the tables on them (without outright stealing/cheating), that isn't morally reprehensible. Casinos and their customers basically have a "We're trying to get over on you, and you're trying to get over on us" sort of relationship, and that has long been accepted as the case.

He mentioned "stealing" of unopened shampoos in a hotel room as theft. Wrong. Those hotel shampoos are yours to take and use as you want. Yes, they may re-use them if left behind unopened, but that doesn't mean it's morally reprehensible to take them home, as you already paid for them (as part of the cost of your room).

He mentioned tax evasion of gambling winnings or comps received. There are many arguments as to why taxing gambling winnings is wrong and improper. It is technically the law that you must report all gambling winnings, but I don't see it as a moral failure. Gambling is a negative-sum game, where the vast majority of the players lose (and can't write off those losses against other income), and the few winners have to pay taxes on what they won! If they lose it all back next year, they don't get those taxes back! That is not fair at all.

Dancer basically stole $10 from a small business -- likely owned by a family struggling to make a profit. (It's hard to run a profitable hotel where the rate is $60/night!) If he wanted the continental breakfast, he should have paid the $10 for it. Personally, I would have skipped the crap breakfast and just avoided the $10 charge. Dancer wanted the breakfast AND not to pay for it, despite already getting a huge bargain on the room.

I find it a lot more offensive to screw struggling small businesses than to squeeze extras out of large corporations. Large corporations are cold, faceless entities, most of which will gladly screw the consumer if they can get away with it. Small businesses are typically the heart and soul of some small family just barely getting by, and you should think of that before stealing or "running advantage plays" on them.

BTW, it is totally fine to search for the best possible rates at these hotels, or scouring the internet for coupons. In these cases, the hotels chose to give these rates on their own, and you are simply identifying taking their best offer. Dancer just outright stole food.

[Spock]

What Dan said.

Dancer is using false equivalency to justify his own behavior. I'd also guess that in his mind there is no difference, and never will be no matter how many people tell him otherwise.

As for the supposition that everyone has done at least some things that may not have been completely above board I'll agree and admit I have done so as well. However, I don't believe I've ever done something quite so blatant as what Dancer did and I've had occasions where I COULD have gotten away with something, but didn't. I went through a drive through ATM once and after it gave me my money, as the door was closing, it spat out another 80 bucks. For a millisecond or two it was YAHOO!, and then I realized it wasn't mine and I had to go inside and turn it in, (and to be honest, the camera on the ATM may have influenced that to some degree). I once bought a $40 item as well as a few other things on a credit card but when I got home I realized I had not been charged for the larger item. I went back the next day and paid for it. In both cases they were quite thankful.

I wonder what Bob would have done in those situations...

[Alan Mendelson]

I confess to taking unopened bars of soap and personal sized bottles of shampoo from Caesars. Heck, I'll even confess to going to Caesars for a night when I am short of soap and shampoo. (Okay, that's an exaggeration.) I even confess to once playing $350 of credits left on a $5 slot machine, but after playing through those credits I remained at the machine, ready to pay cash, to anyone who came by looking for them -- no one did. At the time I didn't know it was against the law to play those credits.

But I would never deliberately walk into a store or restaurant and take merchandise or a meal without paying for it, and that's what Dancer did. And I agree, walking into a restaurant and taking food items is not the same as taking the unopened soaps and shampoos that were allocated to you in your hotel room.

Also, I would not go to the maid's cart in the hallway and help myself to more "take home goodies."

Now a side note: when I was at Caesars for the GGWU I walked up to a video poker machine with an empty seat and asked the two players on either side "is this machine taken?"
Both said no. And that's when I said "is the previous player around?"
"No," said one.
"Well," I said, "this $20 bill wasn't accepted." That's when I reached into the bill acceptor tray and pulled out the $20 bill that was laying there. I sat down, put the twenty in front of the display on the machine and inserted my own money and played.
When I left, the other players said they would watch out for the previous player who, they said, was hopping from machine to machine. I hope they found him.

[regnis]

Was it wrong for me to take the tv from my room at Caesars?

[regnis]

I have twice booked a hotel room that has the free breakfast but forgotten to check "2" on the reservation when my wife accompanied me. When breakfast time came, I went to the front desk and asked them to charge me for the second breakfast. One time they did, and one time they said just go ahead. But I felt it was wrong to just sneak in and have 2 breakfasts.

[Alan Mendelson]

Was it wrong for me to take the tv from my room at Caesars?

Don't laugh. A couple of years ago, when the Augustus Tower was open for the first New Year's Eve, more than two dozen flat screens vanished from the rooms. "Guests" brought in oversized luggage to smuggle the TVs out, is what management thought happened.