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Thread: Rob Singer sent me a trip report.

  1. #41
    Rob, I think the most important thing I got from this is that NOTHING trumps a win goal.

  2. #42
    Originally Posted by slingshot View Post
    Rob, I think the most important thing I got from this is that NOTHING trumps a win goal.
    Of course it is, because that alone creates responsibility in gambling. It encompasses reason, structure, and discipline which are all required for consistent and overall winning.

    Arci, I was able to stop the tax returns and it cost me fifty bucks. But it didn't stop my article about you welching on your own challenge.

    BTW, they're starting the dig on my daughter's new home up there later this week. How is that possible in the tundra at this time of year? She promises it'll be ready for our visit next summer though, and we'll be back for the holiday season too. Will you be ready? I expect Pappy Van Winkle bourbon, and Cindy likes B&B. What's your wife drink?

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Arci, I was able to stop the tax returns and it cost me fifty bucks. But it didn't stop my article about you welching on your own challenge.
    Ok, your tax returns will never come. How about sending a picture of the completed tax form the casino issued you for that nice 50K win?

    Of course if (choose one):

    1. The forms are already with your accountant.
    2. The forms are at a relative's house.
    3. The forms are filed away in a locker.
    4. You need several weeks post a picture.
    5. Someone has to come up with $25,000 in order for you to do it.

    Then we understand.
    Last edited by a2a3dseddie; 12-24-2013 at 06:35 AM.

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by a2a3dseddie View Post
    How about sending a picture of the completed tax form the casino issued you for that nice 50K win?
    I am more interested in knowing Rob's overall accounting. How much was he in the hole before he hit the 50K win? Was he in the hold from this one session or in multiple sessions?

    How much did his special plays cost him at lower denominations? (Obviously he never reached his win goals at $1, $2, $5 or $10.)

    I don't doubt he hit this. A more important point is to put this one win in context of all of his play. Rob has made various comments alluding that he plays very little but consistently walks out of the casinos with huge winners. That is of more interest to me that one big win such as this one.

    It's one thing to hit big winners -- but it's another to hit so many in so little actual time playing. And that is what I am really curious about. Care to explain Rob? Any figures on the ratio of big wins to actual number of hands played?

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Arci, I was able to stop the tax returns and it cost me fifty bucks. But it didn't stop my article about you welching on your own challenge.
    There is no way to stop the process once it has begun. They get a form, they process it. I can only chuckle at your silly attempt to hide the fact you lied in the first place.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by arcimede$ View Post
    There is no way to stop the process once it has begun. They get a form, they process it. I can only chuckle at your silly attempt to hide the fact you lied in the first place.
    My son-in-law stopped it arci. Ask mickeycrimm on WoV if he has the capabilities. In fact....ask yourself.

  7. #47
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I am more interested in knowing Rob's overall accounting. How much was he in the hole before he hit the 50K win? Was he in the hold from this one session or in multiple sessions?

    How much did his special plays cost him at lower denominations? (Obviously he never reached his win goals at $1, $2, $5 or $10.)

    I don't doubt he hit this. A more important point is to put this one win in context of all of his play. Rob has made various comments alluding that he plays very little but consistently walks out of the casinos with huge winners. That is of more interest to me that one big win such as this one.

    It's one thing to hit big winners -- but it's another to hit so many in so little actual time playing. And that is what I am really curious about. Care to explain Rob? Any figures on the ratio of big wins to actual number of hands played?
    OK Eddie, give me a few moments and I'll make one up on photoshop out of an old $5k one...dufus

    Alan, I explained earlier. I played three five level, $1 thru $25 ARTT sessions. Another thread also details that winning strategy. I put a $10k ticket into the machine to start each session. The first two sessions I was never behind. Together they gave me a $9k+ profit. How many hands did I play? No idea and who cares. I only count where I am vs. where I need to be, and money. Yes there were a few special plays at each level that didn't work, less that pushed, but every one was important to do right. Just as the right decision was made NOT to use the special play on the last hand, because of the required minimum win goal attainment rule.

  8. #48
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    OK Eddie, give me a few moments and I'll make one up on photoshop out of an old $5k one...dufus
    Ok Rob, I've not called you any names or insulted you. I'd just like to see some proof as I'm sure many others would as well.

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Alan, I explained earlier. I played three five level, $1 thru $25 ARTT sessions. Another thread also details that winning strategy. I put a $10k ticket into the machine to start each session.
    This is the problem I have with your strategy: with $10,000 and a one-thousand dollar win goal, why bother playing at the $1 and $2 levels? Why not start playing Bonus at $5 where a few full houses and a lucky streak of just trips and pairs and straights will get you a thousand dollar profit? The other night I started with $500 and quickly found myself up more than a thousand dollars by hitting a quad in Aces and Faces.

    It seems to me that you are doomed to dig yourself into a hole playing at the lower levels of $1 and $2 because you probably won't reach your thousand dollar win goal with either a royal or a whole bunch of quads.

    If you really want to play as little as possible (one of your goals is not to stay in the casino) then take your ten grand, sit at a $5 or $10 machine and hit a quad and get out of there. Instead, you are pretty much forcing yourself to feed the casino at the lower levels until you work yourself up to $10 and $25 and by then you might already have a big hole to fill... as you did in this latest example.

  10. #50
    Alan you say all that because you don't understand the strategy. Why don't you just ask questions instead of making blind guesses, and I just got another mickeycrimm-style anonymous e-mail from WoV with your "it's his undoing" message in it. Those people hate me because I made their hero administrator look like a chump and coward a few years ago. They're just like arci--they would never believe I hit anything no matter what proof I provided, because it hurts them to see me win and they just can't cope with the facts. Cindy took a video of me being paid at the machine for our family and friends. Even if I posted that somehow over there or even over here, there would be those who make stupid "liar" claims anyway, and if it caused too much heartburn for them, they'd have no choice but to say what that idiot axelsomething said about me losing even though I won.

    People can believe whatever they want. Until it becomes normal procedure for you and everybody else to post more than just a picture of the wins--just as they have done for years on vpFree--a picture is all anyone will ever get from me also.
    Last edited by Rob.Singer; 12-24-2013 at 05:22 PM.

  11. #51
    Instead of telling me that I don't understand, explain to me how my thinking is wrong?

    It seems to me you are wasting a lot of bullets on low denomination machines because only a very few LUCKY hands will help you reach your win goal. But if you used those same bullets shooting at the high denomination targets you'd hit your win goal faster. Explain why that thinking is wrong?

    Of course Rob, I am not as lucky as you... I don't go to casinos and seemingly hit huge payoffs and jackpots every time I go. I actually lose money sometimes... something which appears to be foreign to you.

    And for everyone else: what I said on WOV is that this particular thread with Rob getting this particular jackpot has "ten pounds of Rob Singer in a five pound bag." In other words, there are just too many inconsistencies all wrapped up in this one report of yours including challenges of your special plays strategy, your retirement, your consistent big wins, even your chasing losses.

  12. #52
    You react like a loser who doesn't want or need to know I win, and win consistently. I told you why I'm playing higher denominations these days. And you keep coming off as dense when you refuse to understand, no matter how many times I've told you, why I kept the Ace on this hold. What's "inconsistent" about it when I played the session and hand EXACTLY as my strategy requires? So I win almost all the time. Tough love--that's what my strategies do, remember? And your continued rant about "chasing losses" is the same old thickness you keep displaying, no matter how often I explain it's all part of my strategy. If you don't like it, tell ME--not do what you've been doing lately and bring your disgust over to a forum you know I can't post on. You've done that twice, and it's a cowardly move.

    Your comment on my "wasting lots of bullets on low denominations" is yet another example of you not paying attention multiple times. Do you know how ARTT is played? More than 95% of the credits are usually played on the highest denomination. And it is not impossible to attain my win goal on lower denominations. Of the three sessions I played and won here, one of them was won at the $5 level.
    Last edited by Rob.Singer; 12-24-2013 at 07:26 PM.

  13. #53
    Call me every name in the book, Rob, but you still haven't answered my questions or responded to my challenge of your system.

    1. Why do you waste time -- and money -- playing lower denominations with such a big bankroll when it is very unlikely you will ever reach a win goal (at your levels)?? Why not simply start out at $5 or $10 and "cut to the chase"?

    2. I understand fully your special plays for attaining win goals when you don't have big losses, but as you have reminded us here, many of your "special plays" become ineffective when you have fallen into a hole. For example, just holding the 3s in this thread.

    3. "Chasing losses" is a real issue. Just as people should have a win goal, they need a loss limit. In your current example you had a $30,000 bankroll, $10,000 per session to make a $1,000 profit. Now, if someone had a $200 bankroll, what would the profit target be for them? And how much should they be ready to lose? Personally, I think you're crazy risking $10,000 to win $1,000. At least tell us you're shooting for the moon with your ten grand. If you only want a 10% return there are safer ways to get it without setting foot in a casino.

    3. Anything I say over on WOV I can and do say here. So, answer questions #1 and #2 above, quit the name calling, and let's discuss your system and methodology.

  14. #54
    It behooves me to point out that having a huge bankroll with the stated purpose of winning a fraction of that bankroll, while technically putting the entire bankroll at risk, is what every casino does. So there is nothing "crazy" about it in and of itself. The issue is that the casino generally, although not always, has an edge. Rob argues that his manner of play neutralizes that edge. If he were correct, there would be nothing inherently wrong with mirroring what casinos do.

    Rob's style of play has nothing to with recreational value, whatever that is, or entertainment time, or anything like that. He doesn't have to concern himself with the fact that mega-losses would reduce or end his casino time or time spent playing, because he derives no enjoyment from being in a casino or playing in and of itself.

    It boils down to whether one believes Rob's strategies flip the odds in his favor. If they do, there's nothing wrong with his style of play if that style of play is an inherent necessary component of flipping the advantage to him.

  15. #55
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    It boils down to whether one believes Rob's strategies flip the odds in his favor.
    I think you have to come up with a different statement and a different phrase to use. Even Rob will concede that his style of play does nothing to alter the odds of the game because the math is the math and even Rob will tell you this. What makes Rob's play different are:

    1. Choice of exit point -- the win goal or loss limit (though it appears his loss limit can be when his trip bankroll is wiped out)
    2. Taking advantage of lucky draws
    3. Maximizing his chance of getting a lucky draw (the special plays)

  16. #56
    Rob I have a direct question about this particular hand: dealt three 3s with an ace. Why didn't you use your "special play" strategy and hold only the trip 3s while rationalizing that you then had two chances to draw the quad 3 plus you still could draw one of the three additional aces in the deck or one of the four 2s in the deck (a total of 7 kickers)???

    In retrospect you might have played the correct strategy but your "special play strategy" still would have held up for this hand. Why did you divert from it??? I would like you to explain that in detail -- why the diversion from the Singer strategy?

    What you did was in effect give yourself one chance to draw the one card for the big win, while the "special play" would have given you two chances to draw at least the quad card plus 7 remaining kickers. I think this is an inconsistency and you should explain it.

    Please see the video I did with you about this exact "special play" which is #16 here: http://alanbestbuys.com/id195.html
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 12-24-2013 at 09:03 PM.

  17. #57
    Forget this VP BS. I want to know where to get the "Pappy" cause we can't get any here. Small allotment gone within seconds at the few stores that get it here.

  18. #58
    Glad to see bringing Rob Singer back to this forum really improved the atmosphere around here and thank God he toned down considerably (sarcasm mode off). Haven't been around here for weeks because I've been to busy at work. I'm glad to see I didn't really miss anything worthwhile. Merry Christmas everybody, enjoy the next couple of months filled with Singer insults.

  19. #59
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Call me every name in the book, Rob, but you still haven't answered my questions or responded to my challenge of your system.

    1. Why do you waste time -- and money -- playing lower denominations with such a big bankroll when it is very unlikely you will ever reach a win goal (at your levels)?? Why not simply start out at $5 or $10 and "cut to the chase"?

    2. I understand fully your special plays for attaining win goals when you don't have big losses, but as you have reminded us here, many of your "special plays" become ineffective when you have fallen into a hole. For example, just holding the 3s in this thread.

    3. "Chasing losses" is a real issue. Just as people should have a win goal, they need a loss limit. In your current example you had a $30,000 bankroll, $10,000 per session to make a $1,000 profit. Now, if someone had a $200 bankroll, what would the profit target be for them? And how much should they be ready to lose? Personally, I think you're crazy risking $10,000 to win $1,000. At least tell us you're shooting for the moon with your ten grand. If you only want a 10% return there are safer ways to get it without setting foot in a casino.

    3. Anything I say over on WOV I can and do say here. So, answer questions #1 and #2 above, quit the name calling, and let's discuss your system and methodology.
    Alan, every question you're asking I've answered time and again. But since I just read that thread on WoV and you were respectable this time, I'll give it another try. BTW, if you could ask Cesspit to e-mail me @ rob.singer1111@yahoo.com, I'd appreciate it. I remember we had a decent but unfinished discussion 3 years ago, and I noticed some inconsistencies in what he wrote.

    1. In ARTT, the lower denoms. play an integral part. The more the better actually, and the % of winning sessions goes up proportionally to the # of denominations. You have to be familiar with the strategy, but in short, it's 100 credits at the highest denom. of BP credits, then if needed, 300 at the advanced BP game. As you climb, whenever 2pr. or better is hit until after the first hand at the highest denom. at BP, you book the soft profit and return to the lowest denom. So for instance, hit a quad or multiple smaller winners in the lower denoms. as you climb, then your session win goal is easily met. It isn't easy to understand without me at the machine with the aspiring player, which is why I tried to get the Wizard and his math freaks together in LV. So no matter how many times they claim I wouldn't explain anything to them, they do know that they had their chance, only it turned into an embarrassment for the entire bunch when they couldn't explain why they wouldn't do it. I was banned rather than my keeping the constant pressure on.

    In SPS, where 400 credits are used at six denominations each, try understanding this: Say you go to a casino with $2500 and want to win $500 while planning to only play dollars. How successful do you think you'd be? Now go in with $15,000, keep that same $500 goal, and use a structured strategy that climbs in denomination as you lose (aka, chasing losses to you). See a better chance? Of course....a MUCH better chance. Your comment here would be the common criticism: "Sounds like a lot of little winners, but they'll all get wiped out when the infrequent big loss occurs". So have you never seen me post the even BIGGER winners? Those happen more than anybody cares to accept, and together with all those "little" winners, it adds up to a nice, very consistent method of profitting from play. No one but me does this, which is why I'm so hated, envied, you name it. I know what it's like playing AP or the way you mostly play. I learned from that.

    2. I didn't send you this big hit to confuse you about special plays. They absolutely ARE designed to get the big hit to either "catch up" or end the session, and 98% of them will out-perform the optimal play. I sent you this example because it is one of the very, very few times the special play takes a back seat.And remember, it's all dependent upon where I'm at in my win goal. Had I been down only $8900 as I said, I would have made the special play of holding 333, thereby having twice the chance of hitting the session-ending $10k winner.

    3. Chasing losses: I think I've explained that as best I can. You can't win if you don't play, and since most players get behind as they continue to play, you won't leave a winner unless you hit a jackpot, suddenly hit multiple intermediate winners, or progress in denomination with a large bankroll.

    4. Sure there might be other, better ways to make money with a good bankroll. But every once in a while I make a LOT of money doing this. And it is extraordinary enjoyment for me beating casinos regularly, after what happened to me in my early days trying.

  20. #60
    Rob thanks for the detailed response. But I want to draw particular attention to this comment you made:

    Say you go to a casino with $2500 and want to win $500 while planning to only play dollars. How successful do you think you'd be? Now go in with $15,000, keep that same $500 goal, and use a structured strategy that climbs in denomination as you lose (aka, chasing losses to you). See a better chance? Of course....a MUCH better chance.

    Rob: get real. You're asking me to walk into a casino with $15K ?? That's problem number one: never in my life would I walk into a casino with $15K nor would I set up a credit line for that much, nor would I play that much... and to win $500 with a $15K potential investment which is a return of 3.33% ??? Rob, do you consider this to be a smart thing to do?

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