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Thread: Las Vegas Losers

  1. #1
    The Internet is filled with websites and posts about visitors to Las Vegas who win. They write about their slot machine jackpots, and their terrific runs at blackjack, and long rolls of the dice at craps, and they all say the same thing -- about how much money they win.

    There are so many "winners" writing about their great luck at casinos that you start to wonder how do the casinos stay in business?

    Let's not forget all of the "experts" that are telling you how to win at blackjack with card counting, and win at craps with dice influencing and dice control, and win at video poker by playing perfect strategy. Heck, there are also "experts" who tell you how to win at slot machines by finding the right machines that pay off the best. And then there are the experts who talk about money management and how the correct money management will give you the bankroll for when it's your turn to win.

    Gee whiz. I've seen it and read it all.

    Well, I am starting a thread for the rest of us... those who aren't always going through the shoe with big wins at blackjack and aren't counting cards flawlessly, and those of us who are not winning at craps with dice influencing and dice control and aren't having monster hands holding the dice for an hour or more, and those of us who are not playing the positive payback video poker machines or really don't have the strategy plays memorized, and those of us who can't seem to find those slot machines waiting to spit out the jackpots.

    Yes, this thread is for Las Vegas Losers. We play in casinos because we enjoy playing, and we go to Las Vegas because we enjoy everything else the city has to offer. But we are not pretending to be big winners.

    So if you have a story about losing, share it here. We all will understand, because we've all lost. There is no shame in being a loser in a casino because that's how casinos are designed.

  2. #2
    You make it sound as if only "losers" go to LV for the fun of gambling and all the rest the city offers and that the "winners" are only interested in winning. That's a huge assumption and an incorrect one. I am not a "big winner" but I have become fairly proficient at playing video poker. By taking the time to learn the game, my money lasts a little bit longer because we all end up helping to pay the utility bill in the long run. By being able to play a bit longer, I can enjoy playing LONGER...this keeps me coming back to LV more often...which, in turn, allows me to enjoy what the city has to offer MORE TIMES.

  3. #3
    What surprises me is that more than 235 people have viewed this thread. Are you all winners, or are you losers, or somewhere in the middle?

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    What surprises me is that more than 235 people have viewed this thread. Are you all winners, or are you losers, or somewhere in the middle?
    I win more often than I lose in Vegas. I'm proficient at most casino games, and if I'm losing at one, I go play something else. If VP isn't being nice, I'll go play some BJ (or craps or roulette or hold'em).

  5. #5
    I've had losing trips, winning trips and even had trips where I came out even. There's no such thing as being an expert in playing slots. Either you win or you don't. I just like playing the games, enjoying a drink or two (or more), people watch, have good food, enjoy the sun and get some comps through time. Las Vegas is a relatively cheap vacation destination compared to other places. It's the entertainment capitol of the world, the climate is great, endless choices when it comes to restaurants and more shopping possibilities than one can imagine. So, it's not all about gambling. We like to gamble for about 4 to 7 hours a day depending on our schedule for the day. I don't play for comps but the times I had losing trips, the comps I got for my next trip almost equaled my losses. It's money I would spend on vacations anyhow.

    I've had one trip when I really lost my shirt. Nothing worked, no machine showed me any love. All I did was lose money almost every single gambling session. I do admit, that wasn't my best trip to Vegas but then again, it didn't stop me from coming back.

  6. #6
    I have NEVER had a losing session in a casino.


    I call them "negative gaming experiences".

  7. #7
    By the way, so far this year I have played at least 93,442 hands of video poker without a royal flush. This is as of July 10th. This is based on my "tier score" with CET. My last royal was in early December 2010, so you can probably add a couple of thousand to that count from December. You can add a few more thousand hands played without a royal for VP games played at lower denominations that add fewer tier points per hand played. And yes, I play by the correct strategy -- breaking up dealt flushes and straights with four to the royal, or with a high pair. I had 4 to the royal again with a dealt flush the other night, and still no luck. I have not yet resorted to pounding on the screen, chants before pushing the draw button, or sacrificing animals on the keyboard. But I do pray heavily. As they say: People pray in Church, in Synagogues, in all kinds of houses of worship... but when they pray in a casino they really mean it.

  8. #8
    Alan,

    I've lost several times in Vegas. Sitting at a cold machine for a couple of hours and waist $500 to $1000. But at the same time, I love being in the city, I listen to the music in the casino, enjoy the cocktails, enjoy watching the people passing bye. I'n not making one mathematical correct play in Vegas because we only play slots. Worst paytables to be found. And after all my Vegas trips I've had winning, losing and even trips. In the end, we had a great vacation anyhow. We went to some great shows, ate at some fine restaurants, enjoyed the sun and all the other amusement the city has to offer. Gambling is just part of our Vegas experiences and a losing trip has never made me want to stay away from Vegas. In other words, on occasion I've lost 1000's of dollars and still didn't let that bother me too much. We still had a great trip.

  9. #9
    Thanks. I enjoy Vegas too. I eat my "best meals" when Im in Vegas. But Im darn frustrated that I can't hit a royal -- even playing by the correct strategy!! I've also enjoyed the shows -- I saw Celine ten times at Caesars when A New Day was there. I haven't seen her new show but I have not heard any good reviews about it. What made A New Day so fantastic was that it was a big stage production-- and it was more than Celine. Many of my trips are for work -- I have TV clients there and I do work for some of the casino companies. But I can only blame my lack of a royal on bad luck, and wow, Ive had too much of it. Each time I sit down at a machine I say to myself -- this will be the session when I hit. Perhaps I am just jinxing myself?
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 07-12-2011 at 02:33 AM.

  10. #10
    Alan,

    Take refuge in the fact that it is very well possible that you will hit 2 or 3 RF's in a very short period of time in the near future. Because that also is part of the long term math. The key here is long term result.

  11. #11
    As a matter of fact, I did hit two royals at Caesars within 8 hours of each other... playing a total of less than a half hour before each royal hit. It's my favorite story...

    When I met my wife Shelley, I was recovering from a very, very (did I say very?) expensive divorce and I told her I had a "ring fund" that I was making contributions to so I could buy her a bigger diamond. And for quite a while, I kept saying "the ring fund is being funded."

    Well, one weekend we went to Caesars. Shelley also plays VP. I was mostly a craps player then. So when I took a break from craps I went over to the Bonus progressive that they used to have in the Forum casino. After only a few minutes I was dealt a straight with four to the royal... dropped the queen of clubs, got the queen of spades and the royal. While I was waiting for the payoff (it took some time) I went over to Shelley's machine and standing behind her I hit her cash-out button. She was startled, turned and looked at me, and I said "the ring fund has been funded."

    But wait...

    I went back to craps and during the next eight hours I lost about half of the progressive. So I said to myself that I lost enough, I still had enough to buy the "dream ring" and as I walked to the room (it's about 8-AM) I passed the jacks or better progressive in the Palace casino. I stuck $200 in the machine and got a couple of trips and pairs and then a four flusher with three to the royal. I held the three royal cards and hit my second royal. That was luck.

    But not as much luck as being dealt a royal on a 50-play machine at Mandalay Bay... it was nickels... paid 10-grand... and that was so shocking to me that I got sick and luckily there was a big brass garbage container just a few feet away.

  12. #12
    Last trip to Vegas I hit an $500 dollar handpay within the first 10 minutes of playing and another $600 handpay on the same machine within another half hour. We just arrived that day, had a shower, unpacked the suitcases and went out for dinner. Went to Bradley Ogden and had a great meal. After that we played some machines and won that $1100 within the first hour of play. We were pretty beat because of the 20 hours of travelling and went to bed. Next morning we went to the pool where we rented a cabana. Enjoyed some time in the pool and sun drinking several cocktails. At the end of the afternoon went back to our room, had a shower and walked ourselves to the Peppermill. We still love their food and ambiance. Had a great meal and went over to Paris to play some machines. That $1100 win of the first night was gone during the second night.......The next four nights we ended up even every night after playing for an average of 5 hours a night. So, it was an even steven trip but it resulted in some great offers from several properties which is always a nice added bonus.

  13. #13
    So Vegas_Lover... Im curious. You won $1100 the first night but finished "even steven." question: do you consider "losing that $1100" your $1100 or the casino's $1100 ??

  14. #14
    Alan,

    I have a bankroll for gambling every trip. I have a daily budget allocated for gambling. The total of that budget is my own money. The $1100 I won during the first night is the casino's money in my book. When I leave Vegas and I still have my pre-trip reserved bankroll intact I call that an even strip. I might have won a million and blew it all away.....I leave in the same financial position I was in when I arrived. I might be fooling myself with that......I could put all the money I win in my pocket and take it back home. But that would take the exciment away partly for the rest of the trip because that would mean "no more Gambling" to make sure I come home a winner.
    Last edited by Vegas_lover; 07-12-2011 at 04:21 AM.

  15. #15
    I asked that question because "advantage players" seem to follow the idea that anything you win is "your money" and no longer the "casino's money." I was curious to know if you follow that?

  16. #16
    No I don't because I'm not an advantage player. I'm an entertainment player. I don't even play videopoker. I only play various slotgames because I like to play the games for relaxation and not think about it too much. It's just a nice night out for us. If we win, that's a bonus but we always expect to lose. Playing with no logic whatsoever, no math involved, just some cocktails and a fun time has given me way better results on occasion than others playing perfect play on VP. But they're in the game for long term financial result. I'm gambling for fun.
    Last edited by Vegas_lover; 07-12-2011 at 04:22 AM.

  17. #17
    I've been keeping track of (approximately) how many hands of video poker I've been playing since my last royal flush. In most video poker games, a royal "hits" about one in 40-thousand hands. In Deuces Wild a royal hits about one in 48,000 hands. In Jacks or Better the royals come about once in about 40-thousand.

    You can actually increase your chances for a royal by "pushing the royal" which means holding only the cards that could give you a royal, but you'll probably lose more money this way. Here's an example: you are dealt As Ks Kh Kd 5h. If you are "pushing the royal" you would hold the ace and king of spades and drop the three kings. I wouldn't do it, but some players might.

    Well, getting back to my royal drought. I've played about 102,000 hands of video poker since my last royal. That's a lot of video poker. I mention it because it seemed like a lot to me until I reread part of John Grochowski's book on video poker where he talks about going without a royal flush for more than two years. And then, I've met players who never had a royal flush in their lives.

    When I talk about my royal flush drought I'm reminded by others that you can go a long time between a royal and then you could get multiple royals in a short amount of time. I'm waiting for the multiple royals. If I am going to have multiple royals, getting them on my very next visit to a casino will be fine with me.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I've been keeping track of (approximately) how many hands of video poker I've been playing since my last royal flush. In most video poker games, a royal "hits" about one in 40-thousand hands. In Deuces Wild a royal hits about one in 48,000 hands. In Jacks or Better the royals come about once in about 40-thousand.
    There's only one critical error in this statement Alan. It should be one in 48,000 hands ON AVERAGE and 40,000 ON AVERAGE.

    I hope you'll hit a number of RF's in a short period of thim. Good luck!

  19. #19
    I have no idea how many hands of VP I've played in 7 years since I learned AP, but I've had 20 Royals (only 1 dealt to me). I know "pushing the royal" is tempting, but I find that sticking to AP extends my budget and therefore extends the playing time, for as we all know: you won't hit a royal if you're not playing.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Vegas Vic View Post
    I have no idea how many hands of VP I've played in 7 years since I learned AP, but I've had 20 Royals (only 1 dealt to me). I know "pushing the royal" is tempting, but I find that sticking to AP extends my budget and therefore extends the playing time, for as we all know: you won't hit a royal if you're not playing.
    Let me play "devil's advocate" with you: You wrote "you won't hit a royal if you're not playing." Let me paraphrase that to say: "you won't hit a royal if you're not playing for the royal."

    There are some players who will hold only the "royal cards" or potential royal cards, sometimes dropping two pair. I don't want to stir an argument but Rob Singer talks about in one of his special plays how he broke up three queens when he also had three to the royal and hit the royal for $100K on a $25 machine. See "Special Play #13" on http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html . Now, even Rob admits this is something he did only because he was stuck with a big loss and he had to get a royal to pull himself out of his big hole. I would never do this -- breaking up three of a kind for any kind of a royal draw.

    But a more "realistic" violation of strategy is breaking up a paying pair when you have three to the royal (in certain games). And Ive seen that done numerous times -- with the players getting rewarded for it. And their rationale has always been something like this: I gave up a break even hand for the potential of a royal, or another high pair, or a straight or a flush. (Note, in some games you do break up the pair to hold three to the royal, in other games you hold the pair and discard the three to the royal.)
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 07-28-2011 at 06:46 AM.

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