Using debit cards at slot machines

[Rob.Singer]

Rob, this is probably the most stupid post you ever made... and probably in your life. Carrying cash is the most stupid mistake you could make -- especially carrying $53,000 in cash as you do.

Interacting with casino personnel is a crime in your book? What a ridiculous statement.

And is there a difference between exchanging a brick of $100s for a ticket and asking for a marker? You're absurd.

Please don't continue this stupidity. I am rapidly losing all respect for you.

As I said, you have a lot to learn. You are, quite simply, a pawn of the casinos, and unless & until you choose to become educated on what it takes to be a consistent successful casino visitor and player, you will continue to struggle whenever you become involved in discussions about such subjects. It's mostly regarding video poker here; elsewhere, of course, you regularly reject schooling about craps. Luckily though, it is never too late.

[Alan Mendelson]

I told you to stop your song and dance. It doesn't work anymore. There is no way on earth you can justify walking around with a lot of cash in or outside of casinos. It is just stupid, and as I said before only drug dealers, gangsters, crooks, Rob Singer -- and maybe people who can't have bank accounts because they owe too much money -- will walk around with a lot of cash.

This has nothing to do with casinos. This is about being a smart person. And I told you -- trying to justify walking around with wads of cash is absolutely dumb.

[slingshot]

The worst thing I can think of is letting everyone know when you hit big or talking about your experience while there. I always donwplay my time there around others

[regnis]

When I hit big at the track, I don't even cash out at the teller. I call one of the managers and go up to his or her office and get paid in private. I have had times where they didn't even have enough cash and I had to come back. But it is always done in private.

[a2a3dseddie]

I was in Atlantic City a few years ago (Caesars) playing blackjack. A guy walks up to the table and slams a huge brick of what appeared to be $100 bills held together by 2 elastic bands. I'd say the wad was about 4 to 5 inches thick. If they were $100s, there must have been at least $50, 000 there. He placed a few $500-$1000 bets, complained about there never being a host around then picked up his wad and left.

Atlantic City is full of a lot of unsavory types who I'm sure would have no problem in robbing a guy who walked around with that much cash and didn't seem to care who noticed.

[Alan Mendelson]

The ONLY time I ever saw someone with a lot of cash at Caesars Palace was when a well dressed man, in a business suit, was standing in line at the cage with a large "block" of $100s held together by very large bands. I know what $10,000 strapped together looks like, so I am going to estimate that this guy had a hundred thousand dollars out in the open, at his side. I can only guess he was facing a deadline to pay a marker.

At the craps tables at Caesars I've seen a total of four players in my life who took out markers of at least one million dollars each. MARKERS. Not cash. The biggest cash buy-in at a craps table that I ever saw was five-thousand. I have never seen anyone buy in with cash for more than five thousand dollars.

But I have a story about the player who bought in with five thousand cash -- because he was a regular and always bought in with cash. He owned a chain of dry cleaning stores in Michigan and went to Caesars just about every weekend (is what I was told). I know that over the course of two years whenever I was there HE was there.

Well, one time I went to Caesars and he wasn't there. I asked about him. And I was told that he went broke, lost the dry cleaning business, and he would never be back again. That was about 8 years ago -- and I haven't seen him since.

He was betting big with cash because it was cash from his business. And by the way, he wouldn't buy in just once per weekend with $5K in cash -- he would do it several times if he had to.

The last time I saw him it was about 6am -- and he came to the table for "one more try" before his 9am flight. He took out another wad of $5k threw it on the table. And he made five bets of $1,000 each on the numbers. Seven out and he was gone.

[Count Room]

The ONLY time I ever saw someone with a lot of cash at Caesars Palace was when a well dressed man, in a business suit, was standing in line at the cage with a large "block" of $100s held together by very large bands. I know what $10,000 strapped together looks like, so I am going to estimate that this guy had a hundred thousand dollars out in the open, at his side. I can only guess he was facing a deadline to pay a marker.

Obviously this guy wasn't taking out a marker for the sake of safety against potential crime since he still had to take the cash with him to pay it off.

I'll still carry up to $4K or so with me these days when I want to do a (25c/50c/$1/$2/$5) version of Rob's strategies, but I always take a check with the W2G on 50-cent or higher royals/big quads at higher denominations.

I consider this a happy compromise between gambling completely cashless or all in cash.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'll still carry up to $4K or so with me these days

Do you have another option? If you don't have a credit line set up, or if you don't have free check cashing, then yes I can understand why you would need to carry that cash.

But you would be wise to come up with an alternative. Unless of course "losing" $4K is insignificant to you?

[Count Room]

Do you have another option? If you don't have a credit line set up, or if you don't have free check cashing, then yes I can understand why you would need to carry that cash.

But you would be wise to come up with an alternative. Unless of course "losing" $4K is insignificant to you?

Alan: If I start gambling for higher stakes (>$5 machines) in the years ahead I would look at alternate arrangements. I only go to Vegas every year or two & markers aren't used in most of the casinos I frequent, but it does sound interesting to me. I just do things like Rob does in some ways: Simply head for the bank and finish all transactions there. Avoid ATM's & I use a debit card just for normal expenditures. Some of the casinos I go to used a "Global Payments" card which allowed only a small limit on check cashing (like $500-$1000 per week or somesuch), so I gave up on that idea.

I certainly wouldn't be happy if I was rolled for $4K, no, but I also would be thankful I still have my life in such a dire circumstance. I consider it an acceptable risk. I used to carry around a lot more (way too much) when I was younger & wilder. Maybe I am whistling in the dark, but I do think the risks of property crime are a bit overstated. I rarely drink and I always try to keep my wits about me.

On an unrelated matter, Alan: You've told Rob several times in the past that you might as well immediately play a $5 or higher machine to win a full house to achieve a small win goal instead of messing around with lower denominations.

I see your point on this and the 25-cent/50-cent denominations tend to 'bore' me after a while. My solution is:
Take $4K to win $300 minimum before going home (if you follow Rob's ideas).

25-cent...all 400 credits at TBP+ or DDB
50-cent...200 credits DB, 200 credits DDB/TBP+
$1...100 credits BP, 100 credits DB, 200 credits DDB/TBP+
$2...100 credits BP, 200 credits DB, 100 credits DDB/TBP+
$5...200 credits BP, 200 credits DB, 100 credits DDB/TBP+ (500 credit "last gasp" here)

The volatility layout actually lowers as I creep up in denominations. Once in a while I can get lucky with Aces right away at quarters (or a royal) and just forget about the whole damn thing. It's more suitable for a "day-tripper" like myself because I rarely stay overnight unless in Vegas or Philly/AC.

EDIT: Even on a day trip, sometimes those progressions can be really long sessions when deep into the levels. I've seen my share of 8+ hour sessions with them. Long, arduous fights that cease to become fun after a while.

[Count Room]

Alan: My carrying around $4K is chicken feed compared to some of the problems Archie Karas faced during his heyday.

He had to transport millions of dollars in cash just to gamble:

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2008/0...ras-part-5.htm

[Alan Mendelson]

If $4k is within your "comfort zone" for traveling to and from banks and casinos that you don't think twice about it then good for you. Me personally? As I said I rarely arrive in Vegas with more than $60 in my wallet.

The other day another forum member and I were on the phone discussing this and he told me he was very uncomfortable carrying more than $1,000.

I would take a check for any cash that I get out of Caesars in Vegas if I could. But unfortunately they close your credit line if you leave with a check, so I only take a check for wins of $10k and up. (Yes, they will reopen your credit line on your next visit, but you have to present yourself to the cage. It's routine, but it's a pain in the butt.)

As far as your adherence to Rob's strategy about increasing denominations I also wish you good luck with it. After Rob failed to account for the missing soft profits on his recent big wins I realized the entire system was a farce.

[Count Room]

Hi Alan:

I wanted to add that just because I am using a variation of Rob's SPS approach doesn't mean I want to encourage others to do the same. I know you didn't imply this, but I wanted to make it clear regardless.

I simply do it for my own recreational gambling because it produces a lot of different results that keep things interesting when there are only negative VP games available (which unfortunately is almost universal these days).

If 100%+ VP were available I would play that first.

I view Rob's approach as a bit like the "Oscar's Grind/Martingale" of VP. (We talked a bit about the "Oscar's Grind" craps system a long while back on the forum, I think.)

Maybe I'll try craps again sometime...

[slingshot]

Alan: If I start gambling for higher stakes (>$5 machines) in the years ahead I would look at alternate arrangements. I only go to Vegas every year or two & markers aren't used in most of the casinos I frequent, but it does sound interesting to me. I just do things like Rob does in some ways: Simply head for the bank and finish all transactions there. Avoid ATM's & I use a debit card just for normal expenditures. Some of the casinos I go to used a "Global Payments" card which allowed only a small limit on check cashing (like $500-$1000 per week or somesuch), so I gave up on that idea.

I certainly wouldn't be happy if I was rolled for $4K, no, but I also would be thankful I still have my life in such a dire circumstance. I consider it an acceptable risk. I used to carry around a lot more (way too much) when I was younger & wilder. Maybe I am whistling in the dark, but I do think the risks of property crime are a bit overstated. I rarely drink and I always try to keep my wits about me.

On an unrelated matter, Alan: You've told Rob several times in the past that you might as well immediately play a $5 or higher machine to win a full house to achieve a small win goal instead of messing around with lower denominations.

I see your point on this and the 25-cent/50-cent denominations tend to 'bore' me after a while. My solution is:
Take $4K to win $300 minimum before going home (if you follow Rob's ideas).

25-cent...all 400 credits at TBP+ or DDB
50-cent...200 credits DB, 200 credits DDB/TBP+
$1...100 credits BP, 100 credits DB, 200 credits DDB/TBP+
$2...100 credits BP, 200 credits DB, 100 credits DDB/TBP+
$5...200 credits BP, 200 credits DB, 100 credits DDB/TBP+ (500 credit "last gasp" here)

The volatility layout actually lowers as I creep up in denominations. Once in a while I can get lucky with Aces right away at quarters (or a royal) and just forget about the whole damn thing. It's more suitable for a "day-tripper" like myself because I rarely stay overnight unless in Vegas or Philly/AC.

EDIT: Even on a day trip, sometimes those progressions can be really long sessions when deep into the levels. I've seen my share of 8+ hour sessions with them. Long, arduous fights that cease to become fun after a while.

I like your thinking-and I too use variations-especially on freeplay. I remember when Rob's first videos came out he said he played 100 credits on bp and 100 on an advanced bp game. It took a past article that antfanas found to prove that I was right.

[Count Room]

I like your thinking-and I too use variations-especially on freeplay. I remember when Rob's first videos came out he said he played 100 credits on bp and 100 on an advanced bp game. It took a past article that antfanas found to prove that I was right.

Slingshot: Note that I don't start playing BP until the third level of the progression (dollars) I personally use.

The lowest two levels are a higher-volatility "get lucky fast or burn through it fast" area hoping for some good early quads to end a session quickly since this is mostly for day-tripping casinos. Even then, I've had a lot of LONG sessions with it. I wouldn't mind abbreviating this strategy a bit further by removing some credits on the bottom and putting them up top.

As I told Alan, it indirectly answers his concerns about Rob fooling around with lower levels when he could reach a win goal quickly at a higher level.

To each his own, I guess. It just keeps things interesting for -EV games for me.

[Alan Mendelson]

This thread is not for Rob's strategy.

[Count Room]

This thread is not for Rob's strategy.

All too easy to get carried away when forum chatting, sorry. Yes, back on topic.

[regnis]

If $4k is within your "comfort zone" for traveling to and from banks and casinos that you don't think twice about it then good for you. Me personally? As I said I rarely arrive in Vegas with more than $60 in my wallet.

The other day another forum member and I were on the phone discussing this and he told me he was very uncomfortable carrying more than $1,000.

I would take a check for any cash that I get out of Caesars in Vegas if I could. But unfortunately they close your credit line if you leave with a check, so I only take a check for wins of $10k and up. (Yes, they will reopen your credit line on your next visit, but you have to present yourself to the cage. It's routine, but it's a pain in the butt.)

As far as your adherence to Rob's strategy about increasing denominations I also wish you good luck with it. After Rob failed to account for the missing soft profits on his recent big wins I realized the entire system was a farce.

Alan-I've never had my credit line closed for taking a check at Caesars (or flamingo, paris, or ballys). I do have to go to the cage if I haven't been there for over 12 months.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan-I've never had my credit line closed for taking a check at Caesars (or flamingo, paris, or ballys). I do have to go to the cage if I haven't been there for over 12 months.

Perhaps using the word "closed" was too strong. The standard operating procedure at Caesars is if you leave with a check, on your next visit you must present yourself at the cage to utilize your credit line again. They do this as a way to stop money laundering. I dont know about the other casinos but that's the way it has been at Caesars for least the last ten years... when I first had a credit line there.