"Fedomalley" Says He Is On!

[Rob.Singer]

Since I'm not allowed to post on LVA and I promised the owner I would never use an alias there--and I NEVER have regardless of all the paranoia floating around that anyone who agrees with even 10% of what I espouse has to be me--we should use this place as a vehicle for making arrangements to do this challenge.

The first issue is the timing. I propose August 10-12 or later until the 30 hours of play is completed. This time of course will be split between Laughlin and LV, but I suspect most of it and maybe all, will be at the Aquarius in Laughlin. Unlike these AP junkies, I only play when I'm alert, I don't need to play fast, and time of day is not important to me.

Next, I propose a date of August 1st to have the CASH escrow into AC if he acceps the job. I also propose that we both pay him $5000 for his services. Of course we'll have the proper notarized paperwork drawn up by then also. Although AC & I are a million miles apart on gambling issues, I've dealt with him on something in the past and he is an honorable & trustworthy person.

Finally, I propose that the loser post on all the vp forums how wrong they've been about the other because they have no clue as to what they do and how they do it. IE, I believe he and his wife are untruthful when it comes to making believe they win anything without over-valuating their comps and other slot club junk to whatever level they need, in order to claim a winning year and to justify continuing on with their habitual playing. He simply believes I'm a liar and a fraud (haha! ask Fezzik about THAT one!).

So I await Fedo's reply and we can get this going.

[Alan Mendelson]

I know this is going to generate a lot of interest, but I am asking everyone not to insult anyone by name. Vulgarity will be removed.

Some of you are new here to our Forum. Please understand that these Forums were first created when the old TV Spy message Forums were destroyed by people who libeled and cursed and dragged important discussions about the Media and the TV news business into the gutter.

We added the other Forums at the request of our website visitors. But we are not going to let them get ruined by insults and vulgarity. They are meant for intelligent discussions and sharing of information.

Please cooperate.

We will not hesitate to edit or fully remove posts that do not follow the spirit that we used to create these forums.

Thank you.

[danfed]

Ok, let's dispense with some of the b****it first....

For someone who's not on LVA, you sure get your info quick. I'm thinking you're sleeping with Money but I guess that's not really important.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and post here verbatim EXACTLY what I posted on LVA:

"Come to Vegas, find a vp game that you like to play (remember, the crappier the pay schedule, the easier it is to win, right?), play 30 hours at a minumum of 500 hands per hour and we'll match your results with real money. If you're a winner after that time, I'll double your winning. However, if you lose, you now owe me an equal amount of your loss. Pick any game/denomination/location you'd like. I'll be here waiting.....it will be the most lucrative play in town for me."

Obviously, there are details yet to be worked out on this and therefore, that is what I'd like to work to resolve and agree.

First, it appears that the proposed date(s) work for me. I do have a regular gig that may subject this to change but it's in my calendar for now and I would give you as much early warning as possible. Alternatively, weekends would work better for me but that might not be the case for you. Let me know your thoughts on this as I can commit to a mutually agreed weekend and be assured of being in Vegas whereas I may not have control of work related issues that may come up and require me to reschedule off of the August 10-12 dates.

Your proposed escrow amout is out of line with reality. I have never played to a bankroll that high nor am willing to risk that amount and I doubt you've played to that bankroll either. Focus on something realistic here and I'm in.

As for the location, I originally proposed LV as there are more venues there and it's home for me. Laughlin doesn't make a difference to me other than being less convenient. Also, since you're suggesting that some of your play may be at Bellagio, doesn't it make more sense to just do this in LV? If there's a compelling reason to do this in Laughlin, I'll consider it but I have to think that they have the same games and paytables in sufficiently greater quantity in Vegas.

Why would I want to pay A.C. $5K to act as an escrow agent? This from a guy who doesn't tip on a hand pay. I don't understand what you're trying to achieve with that. I'm sure we can agree to an independent, trustworthy person and not have to pay a dime. I don't have a problem with A.C. but I do have a problem with a $5K leak. Let's think on some names that we can agree on.

Should we also agree to a minimum/maximum game denomination? I don't want to complicate this but you hitting a 4 OAK on your first hand and then slow playing penny one coin, one line machines to prove in the end that you're the "winner" doesn't excite me too much financially. I could be something as easy as saying a minimum of $5 per spin. In that way, you can opt for $1 single line or lower demon multi line at your discretion.

Not wanting to make excuses but to be honest I intended to type 300 hours. In that way, it would be more represetative of the "long term". I didn't and I'll live with it as I still firmly believe that I have the advantage (as I'm sure you do as well). All this to say that with this few number of hands, I concede that I can in fact lose money to you and if you have a sane bone in your body, you'd agree that it could be the same for you. My intention was to discredit your system and even if I win, I don't believe 30 hours of play is representative of this. Nonetheless, I'd be happy to have your money and some bragging rights as I'm sure you would too if the shoe lands on the other foot. In the end, I don't care what you post about me as it's not slowed you down so far. If I beat you, I'll gloat about taking your money but in good faith I don't believe I would have achieved what I intended which is to descredit your system.

In terms of hours and minimum number of hands, would it not be easier to just call it 15K hands? I proposed 30 hours at a minimum of 500 hph. It's easier to track via points as opposed to someone recording both time and ensuring that the minimum hands per hour requirement is met. If you have a better idea here, I'd consider it....just trying to simplify the process.

Those are some of my immediate thoughts and comments. It's almost 2:30 here in FL so I'm calling it a night. I'll look forward to receiving your response and moving this forward.

A final closing comment.....I know it's tough on both of us but I propose we try to be civil through this process.

Have a good night and I look forward to your reply.

Dan

[Rob.Singer]

Ok, let's be civil as you ask. Too bad you don't follow that rule when you're constantly attacking and telling lies about me on a forum you know I'm not responding on. You wrongly accuse anyone who comes along that doesn't buy into the AP theory of being me, when I have never once used an alias on any forum anywhere. Why in the world would I ever want anyone else to be credited for what I say? Interesting that when you chat with me directly it's now civil time. But I'll do my best.

My proposed escrow is nowhere out of line with reality. You've spent a lot of time asserting how I can't win & haven't won with my "system" because of this or that, and how if I were "really winning" then I'd never have retired from playing professionally. Now you propose a challenge, and it is vividly clear you really know nothing about how I play. I won almost a million dollars - not counting anything from the slot clubs - over a decade's time playing individual short-term sessions on $1 thru $100 machines with a minimum $2500 win goal, and I attained that win goal over 80% of the time. What do you now expect me to do--play some other way after you spent all your energy telling the masses that I'm a fraud? Because of the limits I play there's bound to be some huge wins; thus the $300k each. I want to make sure the money is in-place and ready for me to take home. You may use anyone you like to help you with the escrow if required. If you're gonna talk, first make sure you can do the walk.

If I'm playing then I'm choosing the casino, and I picked the Aquarius because no other Nevada casino has 8/5BP and SDBP on the same $1 thru $25 machines. The HL room is never busy overnight, and I know the people so there won't be any problem having this filmed. Bellagio is optional if I need to play at the $100 level. You can choose that one if you like.

I wouldn't expect AC to work as our agent without paying him for the service. No I never tip handpays and cashiers and I believe to do so is a sign of a weak, intimidated player who gets caught up in the moment and can't properly focus. But I do pay for a service that I request. If you have another idea on this then I'm open.

You bought up a need to agree to denominations and other game-related points several times, yet maybe you just don't get that I only play one way--the way you've been criticizing me for over and over again. My dominant single-play strategy is the ONLY way I play in a challenge because, well, that's how I play and that's what's made me so much profit over the years (& so hated). If you want to admit that you really were criticizing something you didn't understand simply because I irritated you over my publications on how the AP approach doesn't work, then I'll understand. But I only play one way.

If you want 300 hours then I'm fine with that but it'll take probably 6 months of intermittent play. Remember, I'm not a vp junkie, I don't live for the casinos, and I don't live in Nv. But please remember, 300 hours will only mean a higher escrow and you'll lose a helluva lot more money.

RS

[Alan Mendelson]

Why don't you two gentlemen set the rules for your contest, and the details for your contest, between the two of you. Then report back.

In the meantime, keeping with OUR RULES I am going to edit all posts to keep out comments that are not in the spirit of our Forum here.

But I do have a few questions: Is there a starting bankroll or a bankroll limit for this contest whether it is over 30 hours or 300 hours of play? On the other hand, would a "test" also be accomplished over five hours or ten hours of play?

Can this contest/challenge also take place on a "simulator" without making a casino rich? And if the play is at a casino, how do you figure cash back and earned comps in the equation? And just how much "bet escrow" is actually needed to make both sides comfortable?

[danfed]

You decide on the issue of civility and I'll follow your lead. For someone who doesn't post on LVA, you sure seem to know a lot about what I say about you. Do you want to explain how that is? Anyway, I'm happy to spar with you if that's the way you prefer it but it does nothing to address the real issues.

Your proposed escrow is out of line. Let me help you with the math. You proport to have won $1M over 10 years. That's $100K/yr. What we're talking about here is 30 hours of play. Help me understand how we need to post up $300K for this very abbreviated 2-3 day session? Asked another way, when was the last time you had a $300K winning or losing session? Yes, you're mostly correct, I don't know how you play but I know just enough to believe that you think you can circumvent the math and for this reason, I think you're incorrect. Once again, using your $2,500 "win goal", please explain how we're going to get to a $300K swing? You would need 100 winning sessions incorporating your strategy to approach this number. Ain't gonna happen in 30 hours....not even using your math. So, once again, come up with something more realistic to post up. Another option is to post up a mutually agreeable amount and in the event that amount is reached as either a win or a loss, the bet is settled at that time or the escrow can be increased by mutual agreement.

Once again, you've opted to read this selectively. My offer is for you to "come to Vegas. Find a vp game you like to play...". As I explained, the venue doesn't particularly matter to me other than the inconvenience of having to drive to Laughlin and spend one or two nights there but don't try to change the rules and tell me that you get to choose the venue. What I'm trying to avoid is driving all over the place to find games that are likely all sitting in one casino in Vegas and at the same time allow for your "optional" play at Bellagio. If you want to play in Laughlin, I'm good with that but all the play would be in Laughlin....I'm not bouncing back and forth between there and Vegas. Choose which City but agree that whatever you decide, all of the play will be there.

How you come up with a $5K escrow fee figure is beyond me and in my mind, it's an insane amount. Think on a few names that we can both agree on. I don't mind asking A.C. but I'm not paying him $5K. At the end of the day, you don't even know that at the end of 30 hours if I'll owe you or you'll owe me a dime (despite how grossly unlikely that is). Under your proposal we could be paying $5K to distribute a few hundered or a few thousand to the winner. It simply doesn't make sense.

The only point I made on denominations is to agree to a minimum. I explained the reason and at the sake of repeating, I'll do so again. I don't want to waste 30 hours of my life to potentially make a few hundred dollars. I want to make sure that you don't hit an early win and take the air out of the ball and play slow for low stakes for the bragging rights. I'm there to win some decent money and I want to make sure that this is what happens. I even gave you an example and shown how this was also to your advantage. I'm happy to have you play on whatever machines you choose but just agree on a minimum amount per spin. There doesn't have to be a cap on the maximum amount. Play for as high a stakes as you prefer.

Maybe we'll save the 300 hour challenge for the rematch. I think 30 hours will give me my "win goal"

So, to recap, I suggest the following:

1. Agree a venue (City) and stick with it. I don't mind if it's Vegas or Laughlin but not both.

2. Agree on an escrow agent with a zero to very reasonable fee.

3. Agree to a minimum coin in per spin. $5/spin is fine by me and you can make it with no ceiling if you prefer.

4. Agree an escrow amount that's more in line with the money at risk. We can further agree to extend this amount once it's reached by mutual agreement.

Dan

[danfed]

Why don't you two gentlemen set the rules for your contest, and the details for your contest, between the two of you. Then report back.

In the meantime, keeping with OUR RULES I am going to edit all posts to keep out comments that are not in the spirit of our Forum here.

But I do have a few questions: Is there a starting bankroll or a bankroll limit for this contest whether it is over 30 hours or 300 hours of play? On the other hand, would a "test" also be accomplished over five hours or ten hours of play?

Can this contest/challenge also take place on a "simulator" without making a casino rich? And if the play is at a casino, how do you figure cash back and earned comps in the equation? And just how much "bet escrow" is actually needed to make both sides comfortable?

To be honest, I prefer to discuss this in an "open forum" format. Why? A few reasons: 1) There will potentially be a number of witnesses as to the terms and conditions. Neither party can say after the fact that something wasn't discussed or agreed without raising the ire of the other viewers and 2) If this doesn't happen for some reason than once again the readers can judge for themselves why it didn't and avoid subjective conversation as to who "backed down" or "chickened out".

I think we're playing nice so far and I apologize for the "vulgar comment"....it was an oversight on my part and won't happen again from me.

The bankroll limit would presumably be the amount we mutually agree to escrow. IMO, Rob's suggestion is of $300K each is absurd. First, I seriously doubt he (and certainly not I) have ever played for these stakes in a given session or a number of sessions. Second, if you/I believe his claim that he's made slightly less $1M over 10 years, it works out to be $100K/yr. What we're talking about here is a 30 hour session. It doesn't require anything near this bankroll and I contend that he's doing this for showmanship purposes. Third, I don't have $300K in cash under my bed and I'm thinking that withdrawing this kind of money (not that I would do it anyway) might raise some questions by my bank and/or the IRS. Finally, there's no one I trust shy of Barb and perhaps a sibling or two that I would allow holding this amount of money.

IMO, 30 hours doesn't begin to test his "system". It was an error and oversight on my part. We're talking about 15K hands....anything can happen and in a flat bed simulation, he can have a profitable outcome in about 33% of these trials. So, while this "challenge" doesn't accomplish what I had hoped (i.e. to discredit his system), it does give me a potentially better than even chance (approximately 2/3rd's of the time, he should lose) to win his money. Not the desired result when this all started but I'll take it. Doing this over a smaller number of trials allows more "luck" to factor in which is not something I'm interested in. Once again, I made a typo but I'm prepared to live with it.

I don't have a problem if this test was conducted on software instead of a real casino. I would think either Frugal, VPFW or WinPoker would suffice in any of these scenarios but I'll leave it to Rob to decide. However, if your're him and you believe that your system works, why wouldn't you do this in a real casino? In this way, he'd win money from the casino, money from me and also get to enjoy the perks of cash back, comps and future mailer offers. In either event, I of course want to be there in person or via my designated representative.

In terms of "bet escrow", think about this.....he claims to have a $2,500 session win goal. $300K represents 120 sessions. Since Rob has claimed over the last few years to play very few sessions how is the escrow amount he's claiming anywhere near reality? How much would make you happy as an earn rate for 30 hours worth of work? I also suggested that we agree a more realistic amount and that in the event it's reached, we can opt to extend it by mutual agreement.

I highlighted what I believe to be as the outstanding issues below. The ball is in his court to get back to me on this. This continued into early this morning and it's not imperative to me that they get resolved today but the sooner, the better.

Dan

[Rob.Singer]

How do I know the uneducated trash talking you do about me? How about I READ it?! Tell me when you are able to figure that out.

Please allow ME to help You with the math. 30 hours of my single-play strategy can yield results of winning anywhere from $2500 to well over $400,000. And YOU'RE the one who said HOW I play cannot and will not win. The fact that I've never hit a $100 royal is irrelevant for such a challenge--it could happen. Seeing that you're a very vocal RS crtic, I don't trust you or believe you would pay me on credit. Your posts smack of a deep-seated jealousy, and I would never believe you'd just "pay up" after being humiliated in front of those you like to pretend you're constantly impressing with your AP nonsense.

Your friend on LVA is making every excuse in the book so you can exit gracefully and make believe I don't want to play. He has no other choice. But here, now, you can accept and abide by your own rules that I play "the RS way". Either that or you're just afraid. That's why I'm asking you, if you really cannot come up with $300k, get all those AP's who YOU say all they do is win every year and you shouldn't have any trouble at all getting the funds together.

How can I surpass a $30k win? Well, let's talk about a $10, $25, or other big winner that's possible to hit. Let's talk about how many of my winning sessions were much higher than $2500. I've had dollar royals on my 4th hand into the session, and $10 royals within 2 hours. Once again, it was YOU who blabbed that I can't possibly win, it was YOU who asserted that I cannot win against the math (whatever that means) and it was YOU who purported to understand what my play strategy entailed by bad-mouthing it. So now, you propose a challenge directly relating to it, only you want me to believe you're good for anything over $30k--which after all the scampering around and looking for support and sympathy from your LVA friends, I seriously doubt you have even $30k. So we're down to it being YOUR choice: you can either man up to your challenge....or take the escape route laid out by your friend over there and claim I proposed an unreasonable term that even I couldn't handle. Your choice.

I would certainly love to do all the play in Laughlin, only there are no $100 machines there. Common sense Dan, common sense.

I already said if you have a reasonable alternative to AC and the $5k then let's hear it. But if we do use AC we should pay him something.

1. Again, I'll only play BP & SDBP, so if you know of any casino in LV that has those games on $1 to $25 machines--and they don't all have to be on the same machine--then I'm open. Otherwise I will play up to $25 at the Aquarius and $100 in LV. It's a nice drive, I do it all the time.

2. Escrow agent--I gave you my proposal so what's yours?

3. Like a broken record....AGAIN, you criticized the results attained by me using my play strategy, you challenged that "system", and now it's time to walk the walk. I will only play it and nothing else. If it's too rich for your AP blood then just come out and say it.

Your #4 is nebulous at best. I explained why the escrow amount is required. I did the same thing when I made the Fezzik challenge that made the front page of Gaming Today in 2006, only it was $640,000 and I put the cash up with the casino who I had signed up as the agent. Fezzik blabbed on the radio and on LVA that I was a liar and a fraud--kinda like what you do. So I challenged him, I identified in my column where the cash was escrowed, and he walked. So your friend claiming I'm rusing you when I don't have even $300k is nothing more than AP sour grapes.

RS

[Rob.Singer]

Why don't you two gentlemen set the rules for your contest, and the details for your contest, between the two of you. Then report back.

In the meantime, keeping with OUR RULES I am going to edit all posts to keep out comments that are not in the spirit of our Forum here.

But I do have a few questions: Is there a starting bankroll or a bankroll limit for this contest whether it is over 30 hours or 300 hours of play? On the other hand, would a "test" also be accomplished over five hours or ten hours of play?

Can this contest/challenge also take place on a "simulator" without making a casino rich? And if the play is at a casino, how do you figure cash back and earned comps in the equation? And just how much "bet escrow" is actually needed to make both sides comfortable?

Alan, I will use my normal bankroll of $171,600 (3X $57,200, which is a single-session bankroll).

The casinos won't get rich--I almost always win my sessions, which I doubt Fedomalley thought about before posting his challenge. It cannot be done on a simulator because the special plays cannot be incorporated.

Read my last post to see why a large escrow is required. I am the one being challenged, I am the one that will gamble, and I am the one who could hit any number of huge winners in 30 hours of play. Would YOU trust a vocal critic & hater to pay you on credit if you were in a similar situation?

[arcimede$]

too funny for words.

[Rob.Singer]

too funny for words.

How would one go about respectfully asking: "arci, are you taking this personally?" Who woulda thought....one AP puts out a challenge, I clarify it for him since it wasn't well thought out by any stretch, and only you feel bad enough for him to actually come over here! Methinks you just didn't have it in you to tell him how confused he was. But "too funny" is exactly the right phrase. Sure you're overly disturbed by vegasrex. What goes around does come around, my friend. shoulda thought of that years ago on vp.com!

[danfed]

Rob, let's cut to the chase....

Instead of asking your opinion, why don't I just lay out for you what I have in mind and you can either accept this or pass. I don't care either way but I'm hoping you'd accept as I think I'll take home some of your money.

To preface, I'm not changing any of the terms of the "challenge"....I'm simply clarifying for both of us the terms and conditions. These are neither favorable to you or I but rather the "rules of the game". You can try to twist this around but people will see through it. Contrary to what you say/think, I have thought this out very well. I'm a 66% favorite in a game that if I lose only costs me even money. Unlike you, I don't win 80-85% of my sessions so I'll have to "settle" for this as my most favorable play currently on the table.

1. Escrow agent- Although I've not met either of these gentlemen and you have, I'm prepared to ask either Alan Mendelson or Bagiant from LVA to act as the escrow agent. I'll buy them a meal from my winnings. Mendelson will get the free publicity on this site as reward enough. If either/both are unavailable or disinterested, we'll need to agree on someone else.

2. Venue- Please share with the readers how many times you've utilized your strategy and after a certain point determined that a $100 machine was required so you hopped in the car and high tailed it to Vegas to play at Bellagio? My initial condition was for any machine in Vegas. I conceded to you r request and agree to make it either Laughlin or Vegas but this doesn't appear to be good enough for you. Where in your "strategy" have you ever said that you can't find the games you need to make your plan work so you have to drive another 1 1/2 hours to find a playable game? To reiterate, I'm once again good with either locale but am not interested in driving to and from Laughlin and Vegas. Choose one at your discretion and we'll do it there. Once again, I'm making a concession I don't need to make but I want to take every possible excuse from you off the table.

3. Denomination- You can choose the minimum but I'm not interested in wasting 30 hours of my life watching you play penny single line which is what you can opt to do if we can't agree a minimum per push. There's no limit on the high side....play $100 machines as much as you want/can afford. My point is that I don't want to waste time working you for nickels.

4. Escrow Amount- Even your own "believers" think your notion of $300K is rediculous. You're bluffing and we both know it. In an effort to get you in this game, why don't we play for a "measly" $30K. That's $1K and hour which I'm guessing is a bit above your earn rate. If I have you down $30K at any point, I can opt to cash in my chips and take your money. Alternatively, we can MUTUALLY agree to extend and put more money in escrow. Same way the other way....if you have me down $30K, you can either walk with my money or we can MUTUALLY agree to extend.

Your own figures show you earning $100K/yr. We're talking about 30 hours worth of play. What I know about your "system" will fit in a thimble but I believe it's about locking in profits. If this is the case, you're never going to win $300K in a session...even if this session is 30 hours. You're going to lock up and profit that you have in your head and slow play (i.e. lower denom) to lock up a win. Isn't that in a nutshell what your strategy is all about?

Many people have commented that this would never come to pass but honestly I held hope. I'm happy to take your money and accept that you have a chance at taking mine. This doesn't validate nor invalidate your system which was my original goal. It will I hope prove that your progressive betting system including special plays doesn't work.

If you back out, it'll will be clear to everyone that you had no honest intention of taking up this challenge. It was all for show. Your earn rate by your own admission is less than my proposed $1k/hour so let's not dispense with excuses but rather get this agreed and written up and game on!

Ball's in your court....look forward to hearing back.

Dan

[danfed]

Alan, I will use my normal bankroll of $171,600 (3X $57,200, which is a single-session bankroll).

The casinos won't get rich--I almost always win my sessions, which I doubt Fedomalley thought about before posting his challenge. It cannot be done on a simulator because the special plays cannot be incorporated.

Read my last post to see why a large escrow is required. I am the one being challenged, I am the one that will gamble, and I am the one who could hit any number of huge winners in 30 hours of play. Would YOU trust a vocal critic & hater to pay you on credit if you were in a similar situation?

As I thought about it further, I'm not interested in playing this on a simulator. Let me explain why....

If Rob was down to me at some point, he'd simply opt for a higher denom of play. Many of us "play around" on a simulator and wonder what it would be like to play $100 100 play machines. It's a fantasy that's easy to do on a computer but more difficult than when you're playing with real cash.

If Rob is facing the reality of losing real money to a casino AND real money to me, I wonder how much faith he'd actually have in his system. That's the part of the psychological bankroll that I want him to feel. A simulator wouldn't accomplish that.

To respond to Rob's comments above, he's right, I didn't think through the aspect of the challenge that he would always win his sessions. Why? Because I simply don't believe it.

I believe quite contrary to Rob's comments that not only will I make money but the casino's will as well.

I never ask Rob to accept credit as I wouldn't accept credit from him. I already posted my proposal on this challenge as it seems to me he's looking for ways to weasel out of it.

Although I'm not interested in playing this on a simulator, I have no idea what Rob means when he says "It cannot be done on a simulator because the special plays cannot be incorporated." For giggles, please explain what's he's talking about? He can change, games and denominations with a few mouse clicks and can opt to hold or discard whatever he chooses. I originally even provided three acceptable simulators/trainers for consideration. Once again, I'm not sure he's fully committed to doing this.

Once again, I ask you to read what's been written here. Rob claims to win a minimum of $2,500 in 80-85% of his sessions. I've agreed to post up $30K in cash with the mutually agreed option to increase this if this win/loss amount is reached. Based on his play history and comments, he has to be the strong favorite, right? Why wouldn't you take $1K/hour from me if you could. If he balks on this, both his critics and followers can come to their own conclusion.

Dan

[danfed]

How do I know the uneducated trash talking you do about me? How about I READ it?! Tell me when you are able to figure that out.

Please allow ME to help You with the math. 30 hours of my single-play strategy can yield results of winning anywhere from $2500 to well over $400,000. And YOU'RE the one who said HOW I play cannot and will not win. The fact that I've never hit a $100 royal is irrelevant for such a challenge--it could happen. Seeing that you're a very vocal RS crtic, I don't trust you or believe you would pay me on credit. Your posts smack of a deep-seated jealousy, and I would never believe you'd just "pay up" after being humiliated in front of those you like to pretend you're constantly impressing with your AP nonsense.

Your friend on LVA is making every excuse in the book so you can exit gracefully and make believe I don't want to play. He has no other choice. But here, now, you can accept and abide by your own rules that I play "the RS way". Either that or you're just afraid. That's why I'm asking you, if you really cannot come up with $300k, get all those AP's who YOU say all they do is win every year and you shouldn't have any trouble at all getting the funds together.

How can I surpass a $30k win? Well, let's talk about a $10, $25, or other big winner that's possible to hit. Let's talk about how many of my winning sessions were much higher than $2500. I've had dollar royals on my 4th hand into the session, and $10 royals within 2 hours. Once again, it was YOU who blabbed that I can't possibly win, it was YOU who asserted that I cannot win against the math (whatever that means) and it was YOU who purported to understand what my play strategy entailed by bad-mouthing it. So now, you propose a challenge directly relating to it, only you want me to believe you're good for anything over $30k--which after all the scampering around and looking for support and sympathy from your LVA friends, I seriously doubt you have even $30k. So we're down to it being YOUR choice: you can either man up to your challenge....or take the escape route laid out by your friend over there and claim I proposed an unreasonable term that even I couldn't handle. Your choice.

I would certainly love to do all the play in Laughlin, only there are no $100 machines there. Common sense Dan, common sense.

I already said if you have a reasonable alternative to AC and the $5k then let's hear it. But if we do use AC we should pay him something.

1. Again, I'll only play BP & SDBP, so if you know of any casino in LV that has those games on $1 to $25 machines--and they don't all have to be on the same machine--then I'm open. Otherwise I will play up to $25 at the Aquarius and $100 in LV. It's a nice drive, I do it all the time.

2. Escrow agent--I gave you my proposal so what's yours?

3. Like a broken record....AGAIN, you criticized the results attained by me using my play strategy, you challenged that "system", and now it's time to walk the walk. I will only play it and nothing else. If it's too rich for your AP blood then just come out and say it.

Your #4 is nebulous at best. I explained why the escrow amount is required. I did the same thing when I made the Fezzik challenge that made the front page of Gaming Today in 2006, only it was $640,000 and I put the cash up with the casino who I had signed up as the agent. Fezzik blabbed on the radio and on LVA that I was a liar and a fraud--kinda like what you do. So I challenged him, I identified in my column where the cash was escrowed, and he walked. So your friend claiming I'm rusing you when I don't have even $300k is nothing more than AP sour grapes.

RS

Rob, there's a lot here to address so I copied your message for ease of reference for the both of us.

You claim that you read the "uneducated trash talking" that I do about you. Where do you read this? I'm guess LVA....I don't post on any other board that I'm aware of that your a member of. At the beginning of this thread you indicate that you're not on LVA under your real name or an alias so which is it. Are you lying about this? Please tell me where you're reading about my trash talking of you.

Moving on to the more pertinent matters, let's talk about your system as it relates to this "challenge".

Please explain how YOUR system will allow you to potentially win "well over $400K". Don't sluff this off....please give me a real answer. I'm thinking the basis of your system is to lock up profits. The absolutely wildest scenario I can envision is that you're down a significant amount of money which is what would cause you to play $100 machines. Let's say lightning strikes and you hit a RF; a $400K event. How much were you down before you hit that RF? I can have it all wrong and completely backwards but I'm thinking you play at low deonoms and only move up if you're losing and haven't achieved your "win goal". Am I somewhat correct on this? Once again, I content and even your followers agree that $300K would NEVER happen.

At the risk of sounding confrontational, you're not paying attention to what I've said. I never said you "cannot and will not win". In fact, I've said the complete opposite. You have a 1/3 chance of winning which isn't insurmountable odds. I just believe that I have the best of it. I have a 2/3rd's chance of winning and if I lose, it only costs me even money.

Once again, for you to hit a $100 RF, incorporating your system you would have to already be down a significant amount of money. So a $400K jackpot isn't a $400K win.

You're once again heaing/seeing things....I never said that we should play on credit. With all due respect, I don't trust you as far as I can throw a casino so I love the idea of having escrow funds and frankly wouldn't do this any other way. I never asked to play on credit nor would I.

If you're thinking I'm jealous, you're reading it wrong. I'm working hard at keeping this civil but I sense you're about to come unglued so let's take a deep breath and relax.

Instead of bantering this about and posturing, I've offered something that any person with your beliefs and claims should be jumping all over. Here's a chance to take $30K from me and discredit all of the AP'ers in the process. I would think you'd be in your glory and a fool for not taking advantage of me/it. I'm sorry it's such a meager amount but I don't run in circles where most people make $1K/hr. If that's too paultry to you than I guess I'm going to have to put my tail between my legs and back down. However, no one will believe you and I believe this will further discredit you and add to your lack of credibility. I'm not saying this to be mean spirited (contrary to what you may think). Take a step back and think about this. You either have a piegon in me that is willing to pay you $1K/hour for your time (plus your casino win) and to prove your system or you're a fraud who plays a smoke and mirror game but can't back it up.

Please don't try to twist this as you did with some of the comments in your post. You have my offer in a separate post. It's exactly as I offered in my original challenge with concessions to you for venue and provisions for rules of the game that don't compromise either party. You can accept or pass but I'd prefer for you to play. I've had a number of PM's on LVA that indicated you'd pass on this. I told each that I hoped that wasn't the case. Please don't make their preminitions come true.

Dan

[Rob.Singer]

From the looks of your first sentence, maybe you finally know what you're proposing this time. Let's see.....

Clarifying the T's & C's is what I started out doing since you left gaping holes in what you were trying to say.

1. I agree. "Who" was was never an issue.
2. I've played up to the $100 machines 20% of my sessions. I never played at the Aquarius until they installed those machines after taking over from the Flamingo. Since SDBP is my #1 winning game because of how it fits like a glove into my play strategy, it only makes sense that I use it in any challenge. Like I said, if you can find a similar game with those denominations anywhere in LV, be my guest and I'll play them.
3. Here's the disconnect again. Once more time: I WILL ONLY PLAY MY PLAY STRATEGY BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE CRITICIZED. THAT MEANS PLAYING $1 thru the $100 machines. Nothing more/nothing less. If you notice over on LVA, a dozen posters are coming on and saying -- and I'm sure to your delight -- that I have no chance and I'll lose X% over so many hours if I play NSUD or this or that game at the same denomination. I do believe those people have walked into the same wall as blindly as you have. They have absolutely no clue as to what my play strategy consists of. All they hear is "play a -EV game and you will lose/play a +EV game and you will win. That is as dumb a scenario as I've seen. I imagine some of them have read the clarifications over here and are too embarrassed to say anything further. Except for arcimedes, that is, but he just can't help himself.
4. What in the world does "mutually agree to extend" mean? And like I care who thinks the escrow I proposed is ridiculous. That's because that amount of money is so far out of their comprehension that it really IS ridiculous. But not to me. I've played these limits for over a decade with a large bankroll, and when I put Fezzik in his place with that verifiable escrow....well, there was nothing "ridiculous" about it.

You're missing my whole point on the $30k. I have no doubt I'll win more than that over ~10 sessions (each session has averaged out to about 3 hours overall). I'm simply following your lead on the challenge. You made an understandable proposition but it lacked important terms, so I filled them in while considering how to cover all bases. One of those was to make sure I didn't get stiffed. All I know about you is you're a habitual vp AP addict who needs to do your own manipulation of slot club benefits in order to manufacture a profitable year and it runs in the family. That raises a huge red flag to me, and says that we better make sure no one goes away without the exact prize that YOU specified - not me. So that's how I closed that hole. You can hide behind all the arcimedes' nonsense about it that you want. I will not make multiple trips to Nevada and play that many hours while putting in play at such hi-limit machines where there's a chance, however infrequently, that I could win hundreds of thousands of dollars....and not make you eat every one of your hateful words in the form of cold hard cash. You wanna play....you wanna make poorly thought-out bets....then you will pay.

5. I'm putting the same escrow amount up you are, and even if I did lose it wouldn't be anywhere near that much. But you don't see me worrying about it being such a large amount. My quitting goal for each session is a minimum of $2500--not some figure that's floating around in my head. If I win the minimum in session #1 there'll be no "slow play". Where'd you come up with that one? That means I won $5000--hardly worth my time to do this.

You can toot all you want about by me requiring we both put up a safe escrow based on the potential of my play strategy, that it's the same as me backing out. You have no other choice do you. But if it doesn't come to pass, what's the reason? All you have to do is agree to the escrow amount that is commensurate with the levels I play, and it's a done deal. If there's no challenge then you only have yourself to blame--that, and your own inexperience with my play strategy that constantly led you to say such stupid things about it and me on a forum I don't post to. Just like arci does. You don't think those whom the both of you believe you're always impressing, can't see why you're both doing that? I beg you not to weasel out of this. I would love to walk away with some of your what now appears to be phantom bucks from all that exceptional AP play.

You don't see me looking for confidence-building support from anyone. It's obvious why you are. If you're that jumpy about all this, maybe you better think before you write next time.

[danfed]

I have to admit that despite it being my suggestion, you make civility a challenge. LOL

Anyway, back to the issues....

Sounds like we're ok on either Mendelson or Bags provided they're interested.

Once again, my offer was for you or your followers on LVA to play any game of their choosing in Vegas. I didn't do this to be cute nor am I trying to split hairs with you now; it was simply a matter of geographic convenience for me. Was it not you on a 5/27 LVA post compliments of Bags that said "I can easily beat a bad paytable". Did Bags misquote you or did you email him this? I'm guessing that there are ten of thousands of video poker machines in Las Vegas. Are you suggesting that you can't find your preferred game there? I don't recall ever reading that you've stipulated that you can only be a winning vp player by playing at the Aquarius in Laughlin. I'm conceding to allow you to play wherever but I'm not running all across NV to accomplish this.

Why don't we stop the dialogue and you outline EXACTLY what your strategy is? Let's see how and when your bets get to the $100 level. Once again, it's interesting to hear you say what your critics are saying about you on LVA. Why don't you explain that as well? Since you seem to have access to what is posted on LVA, where are all your supporters who agree with your silly requests? Once again, my conditions haven't changed.

Instead of posturing once again, I think you finally agreed that it would be a minimum of $5/push. You mentioned $1 machines as a minimum and all I want to agree is full coin or $5/push minimum.

I made this pretty simple...I'm willing to post up $30K. You claim that you'll win more than this in approx. 10 sessions. That should make your win rate per hour even higher. Is my $30K not enough for you? Is a $1K+/hr. win rate too measely? Be careful how you answer this....people will quickly realize you're looking to weasel if you balk on this. $1K/hr. x 2,000 hrs/yr. is $2M in earning representing the highest 1/2 of 1% of all US wage earners. Once again, I never suggested we play on credit.

"I'm putting the same escrow amount up you are, and even if I did lose it wouldn't be anywhere near that much." OK, so you agree....so what's the purpose of playing this bluff? You already agree that the loss amount wouldn't be anywhere near $300K so let's stop the nonsense and play the game.

I suspect that you finally grasp that my bet is strong and now you're trying to figure out a way to back out.

To save on future bantering, here's my final offer...

1. Come to Vegas OR Laughlin and play any vp game that you want in any number of venues of your choice in either locale.

2. Minimum bet is $5/push. No maximum bet restriction.

3. 15,000 hands.

4. Mendelson or Bagiant as escrow agent.

5. $30K escrow amount posted in cash with agent no later than 8/1/11.

6. Play dates of August 10-12.

7. Losing party will pay the winning party an amount equal to the win/loss realized as a result of 15,000 hands of play.

8. If $30K win or loss is achieved prior to the 15K hands, winner has the option of taking the profit off the table and/or increasing the escrow amount by mutual agreement.

I think this generally covers it. I don't believe that any of this deviates from what I originally outlined on LVA and simply clarifies terms and conditions that were never addressed as part of the original challenge.

Ball's in your court....are we going to do this or not?

Dan

[Alan Mendelson]

Gentlemen, I don't want to physically hold the "cash" or "bank checks" or whatever you use as "escrow funds." Can this escrow money be deposited with the casino? And there should be two escrow "agents" with signatures required from both to touch the account.

I think you should also spell out who the judge/judges/decision-makers will be and what responsibilities they have to monitor all play and credits as well as "coin in."

[danfed]

I tried to edit my original message but it was beyond the 60 minute period that allowed this. While I was making this commitment, Barb had booked us for a casino outing with 20 friends so I'm suggesting pushing the start date (item # 6 above) from August 10-12 to August 11-13. If this doesn't work for Rob, I'm open to alternate dates for consideration with preference for weekends.

Dan

[Rob.Singer]

I'm not following how you just don't understand that anyone can read LVA FFA forum. No need to be a forum member. So you see Dan, I do not lie.

How can I win $400k? Easy. If I need to play $100 machines all that means is I have not yet profitted $2500. I could be up $2490 in what I call "soft profit" or down as much as $17,200 at that point. I have lost only one session at those machines, and my net total session loss for it was $34,000. In all other $100 sessions they provided what I needed to win. The point is, since I'm exposing myself to playing these machines (as well as the $25 games) then anything can happen and I want to be 100% prepared in a betting scenario. No one's giving up any of the $300k escrow--it's just there for coverage. If I lose you simply take it home with you. How can you argue with doing that?

Please explain how you believe I only have a 1/3 chance at winning. That dufus on LVA who did the NSUD bit has no clue to how I play. I'm surprised that you follow his lead here. Even arci will admit that I win around 80% of the time. The only part he doesn't comprehend is that I'll be way ahead even if I do lose 2 sessions because of the extremely large winners I have the opportunity of hitting.

By you continually trying to lower the escrow and/or that part about mutual extensions is exactly the same as asking me to trust that you'll pay me when I win.

Contrary to what you want to believe, the only people who criticize me are the extremely envious ones who've been reading about my successes and dissing of AP for years. And it seems the more I posted $100k, $50k, $80k and pics of other large W2G winners in Gaming Today, the more irritated they got. You may notice that there are only a handful of people on LVA who criticize me, and it's the same on every vp or gaming forum. The vast majority of people remain silent and many do because they dislike arci's stalking and condescending attitude and total pack of lies about not only me--but him. When I do my interview with Frank Kneeland next week it'll be his biggest audience ever. Why? Because people understand common sense when they see or hear it. And while arci and you and others in that crowd attack my methods, I've had almost 10,000 members who received my video e-newsletters all those years. So you see, THAT'S why I come out strong on people like you, arci, Fezzik etc. who just can't stand that I'm successful the way I'm successful. If you want to make a so-called tough challenge to me then be prepared to walk the entire road with me.

I assure you, you can multiply that "number of PM's from LVA" you get by 8-10 when it comes to the number of e-mails I've received telling me what a chicken you look like by not wanting to put up enough escrow-...or not wanting to group the assets of some of those "winning AP's lurking the streets of LV" that you claim to know.

[ajs525]

Why don't you guys agree to donate winnings to charity? You could turn this into a big event and raise a lot of money.