Seven Stars Renewal Event VS Diamond... Cue The Laugh Track

[nerakil]

So a lot of angry Seven Stars players (and whales) at the renewal gift event today, and for good reason.

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For the Diamond renewal event, players picked up a booklet containing:

3 $25 Dining Credit Coupons ($300 total) for each property (Showboat, Bally's, Caesars & Harrah's)

1 Diamond Lounge pass for two

2 Complimentary Buffet Coupons for each property (Harrah's, Caesar's, Showboat)

4 Complimentary Drink "up to 2 people" coupons for each property (Showboat, Bally's, Caesars, & Harrah's)

3 $50 Spa Credit Coupons (1 Caesars Qua Bath & Spa, 1 Showboat Vive Day & Salon, 1 Bally's Spa Services)

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If you were Seven Stars and you showed up, you were denied and told to pick up your Seven Stars renewal gift on the 25th.

So that's today! And everyone gets... a Vera Wang picture frame that you can buy on eBay for $25. And also two complimentary cocktails! And a wristband for the cocktail reception!

One high roller (orange-chipper) who I play with a lot at the baccarat table slammed his gift into an ATM and stormed off. One woman mentioned she had lost a million playing slots and she "waited in line for this sh!t" (exact quote).

Good job Caesars.

[Rob.Singer]

And you people continue to allow yourselves to be roped in to play at their properties over & over & over again. It's like being humiliated by your lover, then going back for more because you just can't get enuf and writhe in pain over the thought of moving on for the better good. My my my....

[Dan Druff]

Well, that's better than we get on the west coast. There is neither a Diamond nor Seven Stars renewal event out here.

I guess that's one way to prevent people from feeling insulted.

It does appear from your story that Caesar's is trying harder to woo the Diamond players (feeling that they have the potential to play a whole lot, but aren't quite there yet), and are neglecting the Seven Stars, feeling they are already married to CET.

It's kind of like the wife who stops having much sex with her husband because she feels he won't leave her no matter what.

And they're probably right. In a vacuum, it probably is more cost-effective to aim promotions at the gamblers who are more on-the-fence about regularly coming to your properties.

However, the problem here is twofold:

1) Everyone is grouped either as "Diamond" or "Seven Stars", so there are two distinct groups, and this is not done on a case-by-case basis.

2) People talk to one another and find out what the other group got.

So when the higher group finds that they got a fraction of the promotion given to the lower group, all hell breaks lose.

Typical idiotic Caesar's not seeing the entire picture before acting.

They got the concept right, but failed to realize that this only works via individual direct marketing, and not by card status group.

[Dan Druff]

And of course, there's the other problem, and that's the whole concept of Seven Stars.

Seven Stars is awarded to you based upon what you've done in the (semi-recent) past.

Hosts comp you based upon what you're doing in the present and what you're likely to do in the future.

So this creates a weird situation, where hosts get to resent certain Seven Stars who "aren't playing enough recently", and avoid doing anything for them. At the same time, these hosts are very generous to Platinum and Diamond players who are showing the willingness to play on every trip.

These players card programs are just too contradictory for what the casino is really trying to accomplish (only comp the players who are going to regularly and continuously play), and I wonder if they will be heavily modified or done away with over the next few years.

[fly2rei]

There was a Seven Stars/Diamond renewal event at Harrah 's Rincon.
Everyone got .....
Wait for it

A pair of Sunglasses
(And I waited in line for this?)

It's true players talk to one another. And if Diamond players find they get more
By staying Diamond, then becoming Seven Stars, then why would they play more?
Smart move Gary Loveman.

[Rob.Singer]

I don't understand: isn't Rincon considered as being on the West Coast??

CET isn't manipulating Diamonds to become Seven Stars with cheap gifts and smiles--not at all. Why? Because for the most part, they can't. It takes a fortune worth of play to go from Diamond to SS, and the vast majority of Diamond players either can't afford the huge amount of play, or they have little interest in going to and staying around casinos as much as it takes to hit the top. Since I received my SS card after the high limit binge I went on, I've been getting as much of the CET junk mail and online hook offers as the rest of SS nation, but none of it makes my palms sweat like the rest of you because to me it's all about winning--and not the stupid consolation prizes. And this talk about how "oh so special" the hosts are....the hosts are a big part of the problem you're all crying about, for God's sake. Wake up. The more a SS player digs in , the more they'll end up abused. Just read this forum for proof.

[redietz]

Just for the record, I completely agree with Rob. Debating the minutia of Seven Stars versus Diamond in terms of gambling smart is like debating the nutritional qualities of McDonald's breakfast versus their lunch in terms of eating smart. One can squeeze all of the relative advantages one can out of the process, but the process itself is absurd and a waste of time. In CET, you are dealing with the company that has done more to ruin the odds of gambling and comp rates of gambling than any other company in existence except, in the case of comps, Adelson's.

[supermaxhd]

I would hope the hosts are more willing to accommodate requests from seven stars than Diamond players. I've asked my host to comp me $150 to take friends to Margaretville or the steak houses, and other restaurants and show tickets in the past and they are usually willing to help. Often I don't seek them out, I just ask when they find me and ask if I need anything. I am a seven stars level II for now which I don't expect to maintain. My free play coupons have been cut drastically. Some free play offers now have hurdles like $100 free play + another $20 for earning 1200 tier credits + another $80 for earning another 600 tier credits in the same day. The monthly VIP gift giveaways where you could optionally take 15,000 reward credits have been cut. This weekend was the VIP giveaway was bread maker or 7500 reward credits or earn 1000 tier credits in on the day and get an upgraded bread maker or 12,500 tier credits.

BTW, got first VP Royal Flush at HorseShoe Southern Indiana Friday night after about 120,000 tries. It was for 40k on a $10 credit machine (I had never played $10 credits before) and did it in about the first 10 minutes of play.

[Rob.Singer]

Congratulations on the royal. That's a long time to go between them. However, you're taking a chance around here talking about $40k wins. I enjoy hearing about them, but those who constantly lose don't. If you post a picture and have thin skin, make sure your camera's date is set exact. Then show proof of the casino, your travel documents that prove it was you who went there, be certain you & your DL are in the same picture as the royal along with the true W2G, show proof that you were using YOUR money when you were playing, and show court documents swearing that you didn't lose it all and more after you hit it. Then, when you've completely frustrated the few remaining doubters & haters here, you may laugh at and make constant fun of them.

One more thing, and this is for Alan. Change the 10 minutes to ten hours. He doesn't believe anyone can hit big wins in so little time.

[slingshot]

Just for the record, I completely agree with Rob. Debating the minutia of Seven Stars versus Diamond in terms of gambling smart is like debating the nutritional qualities of McDonald's breakfast versus their lunch in terms of eating smart. One can squeeze all of the relative advantages one can out of the process, but the process itself is absurd and a waste of time. In CET, you are dealing with the company that has done more to ruin the odds of gambling and comp rates of gambling than any other company in existence except, in the case of comps, Adelson's.

Great answer.

[ke6cdh]

Yes even if you need prescription glasses for distance you. At RINCON diamond renewal you received a pair of non-prescription sunglasses. I asked if that had anything that I could use like clip-ons for people with prescription glasses and they said NO. So I guess I know what I will be re-gifting.

[Dan Druff]

I would hope the hosts are more willing to accommodate requests from seven stars than Diamond players. I've asked my host to comp me $150 to take friends to Margaretville or the steak houses, and other restaurants and show tickets in the past and they are usually willing to help. Often I don't seek them out, I just ask when they find me and ask if I need anything. I am a seven stars level II for now which I don't expect to maintain. My free play coupons have been cut drastically. Some free play offers now have hurdles like $100 free play + another $20 for earning 1200 tier credits + another $80 for earning another 600 tier credits in the same day. The monthly VIP gift giveaways where you could optionally take 15,000 reward credits have been cut. This weekend was the VIP giveaway was bread maker or 7500 reward credits or earn 1000 tier credits in on the day and get an upgraded bread maker or 12,500 tier credits.

BTW, got first VP Royal Flush at HorseShoe Southern Indiana Friday night after about 120,000 tries. It was for 40k on a $10 credit machine (I had never played $10 credits before) and did it in about the first 10 minutes of play.

Glad to hear about your royal. I've never hit one, though I also haven't played 120,000 hands.

Just to let you know, hosts don't care what level you are when deciding what to comp you. If you are gold and been playing regularly, they will comp you. If you are Seven Stars and have been staying recently and not playing, they won't.

Your TR level means nothing to hosts, aside from the things they are required to do for you in order to support the program (such as get you the $500 celebration dinner voucher once per year).

Question: When you got the $150 comp for the steakhouse, did you have RCs at the time? Did you check your RCs after getting it? In general, hosts are instructed to burn your RCs before comping you.

[Rob.Singer]

Sorry for paying attention to details that don't make sense--for which Dan likes to call me a "troll"--but if Dan doesn't play the limits I do, how in the world can he say he is & has been Seven Stars, and has NOT played 120,000 hands?

[Count Room]

Glad to hear about your royal. I've never hit one, though I also haven't played 120,000 hands.

You are very overdue for a royal, Dan. Hope you find a nice +EV (or even a fun 99%+) progressive meter machine and nab at least one big satisfying hit from it ASAP.

Once you find your first royal you will viscerally understand why we enjoy playing the VP machines.

[Dan Druff]

Sorry for paying attention to details that don't make sense--for which Dan likes to call me a "troll"--but if Dan doesn't play the limits I do, how in the world can he say he is & has been Seven Stars, and has NOT played 120,000 hands?

Easy.

I have only been Seven Stars since 2012.

I haven't played this year.

In 2012, you needed 100,000 base tier credits to make Seven Stars (no bonus tiers).

In 2013, you needed 50,000 base tier credits to make Seven Stars (and you would get 100,000 bonus tiers to make up for the rest, if played optimally.)

That makes 150,000 base tiers.

Each tier credit represents $10 in coin-in at VP.

That means I've put in $1.5 million in coin-in.

Divide $1.5 million by $25 per hand (since I play the $5 machines almost exclusively), and you get 60,000 hands played.

There you go. I also didn't earn all of my tier credits on VP, but I won't bother to factor that in.

[supermaxhd]

I have been comped for $150 at the steakhouse at Horseshoe Southern Indiana when I asked and I had a lot of reward credits available. I once got a comp for $150 at Margaritaville in Cincinnati when I asked. My Cincinnati host called me for my birthday for dinner for 2 at the Cincinnati SteakHouse. I don't think I have ever been turned down but I don't ask that often. Horseshoe Cincinnati has a 'host desk' where you can go ask. When I took my annual retreat back in January my Cincinnati host was able to get me a second room comped in advance at Caesars Palace. Upon checkout from my annual retreat I asked the on duty host to consider my play there for the remainder of my balance at checkout. They took my reward credits for that.

Will a large win influence the offers I get or what I can ask for?

[supermaxhd]

or $500,000 coin for VP in if you optimize the tier credit bonuses. When 9/6 JOB still existed the expected loss was about $2300 for seven stars, I expect it is much higher than that now.

[Dan Druff]

I have been comped for $150 at the steakhouse at Horseshoe Southern Indiana when I asked and I had a lot of reward credits available. I once got a comp for $150 at Margaritaville in Cincinnati when I asked. My Cincinnati host called me for my birthday for dinner for 2 at the Cincinnati SteakHouse. I don't think I have ever been turned down but I don't ask that often. Horseshoe Cincinnati has a 'host desk' where you can go ask. When I took my annual retreat back in January my Cincinnati host was able to get me a second room comped in advance at Caesars Palace. Upon checkout from my annual retreat I asked the on duty host to consider my play there for the remainder of my balance at checkout. They took my reward credits for that.

Will a large win influence the offers I get or what I can ask for?

Large wins will not hurt you.

They compute how "valuable" you are as a customer by "expected losses" based upon your RECENT coin-in and expected losses based upon that coin-in. Hosts will do a lot for you if you are playing a lot and frequently. They will do nothing for you if either your play is very light, mostly in the past, or you have been staying without playing much recently.

Another big factor is how many comps of ANY KIND you have used lately, with the exception of:

- Freeplay coupons (hosts don't see when you use those, but the Total Rewards computer generating them does)
- RC redemptions (those are ignored when computing what comps you've redeemed, because they were already "earned" and banked)
- Total Rewards Airline tickets, whether obtained through the Seven Stars annual trip or promotions. (However, they WILL count airline tickets against you if you just ask your host for them, if they're not associated with any offer or benefit.)

So every time you use a free hotel room, it's considered a comp. Every time a host writes you a voucher for free meal, it's considered a comp. Every time your host gives you free show tickets, it's considered a comp. If they use your RCs for these things, it's not considered a comp, but you lose RCs, which have real value.

Anyway, once recent comps have exceeded what they feel you're "entitled" to based upon recent play, then they will refuse to do anything for you. This is lousy, because if you played a ton last year, barely used any comps, and then slowed down and stopped playing, you won't get "credit" for what you did before, beyond the RCs you earned. That's why it's good to bank RCs unless you're a very consistent player.

Of course, this also varies from host to host. Some are extremely tight with comps, while others will do things for you even when your recent play doesn't justify it.

Supermaxhd, it sounds like you play enough to justify ongoing comps, as you must not be using more than you're earning. They are technically supposed to be taking your RCs first before giving you steakhouse comps, but hosts are granted leeway in this so as to not piss off the good customers.

Getting a second room is actually fairly easy if you are playing regularly. Even I was able to squeeze some second rooms out of them in 2012 and 2013, but they have tightened up on this somewhat, and now scrutinize if your account justifies it. Apparently yours still does, but mine doesn't at all.

[Dan Druff]

or $500,000 coin for VP in if you optimize the tier credit bonuses. When 9/6 JOB still existed the expected loss was about $2300 for seven stars, I expect it is much higher than that now.

Yeah, the $1.5 million I referred to was for COMBINED 2012 and 2013. It was $1 million for 2012, and $500,000 for 2013.

As I mentioned on a different thread, I realized recently that you can play EVERY OTHER YEAR once you're a Seven Stars, provided you earn Seven Stars back in the first 3 months of the next year, and you will never lose the status.

So let's say you earned Seven Stars in 2013.

You will also have it in 2014, no matter what you do, so you don't play at all.

Then, in 2015, you play 150k tiers before April 1, and you will get it renewed until April 1, 2017 (without your status ever expiring).

Then, in 2016 you don't play at all.

Then you again earn it in the beginning of 2017, and that lasts until April 1, 2019, etc etc etc.

[Rob.Singer]

Easy.

I have only been Seven Stars since 2012.

I haven't played this year.

In 2012, you needed 100,000 base tier credits to make Seven Stars (no bonus tiers).

In 2013, you needed 50,000 base tier credits to make Seven Stars (and you would get 100,000 bonus tiers to make up for the rest, if played optimally.)

That makes 150,000 base tiers.

Each tier credit represents $10 in coin-in at VP.

That means I've put in $1.5 million in coin-in.

Divide $1.5 million by $25 per hand (since I play the $5 machines almost exclusively), and you get 60,000 hands played.

There you go. I also didn't earn all of my tier credits on VP, but I won't bother to factor that in.

Dan, you might think you can get your BS by the others here--including Spock, who is lurking on this thread as we speak with burning ears, but he will not humiliate you because I'm here--but you'll never get it by the common sense experts.

So you claim to have just "jumped into" video poker on the $5 machines....while you're also someone who's on record as griping vehemently at Caesars for not giving you free Gatorade or some other crazy complaint. Then you spend hour after hour moaning and groaning about cutbacks and cruise nonsense, that someone who is a beginner at vp would have no problem spending his own money on. And then you expect anyone would believe you suddenly stopped playing as soon as you got your special card? With the overwhelming amount of cruise details you espouse about saving a penny here and a nickel there when you're not criticizing them? Come on, man!

You're as easy to see through as Dancer and his divorce and subsequent odd behavior that could only result from low remaining assets. People who play $5 limits "almost exclusively" never gripe about a dollar here and a dollar there. I don't expect to see you say how many hands you think you've REALLY played. But at least if you're gonna try and make it look like you don't play much and take huge baths at Harrahs in doing so, you need to start controlling what you say in other threads & posts.