Book your 2014 Signature Event! Oops... did I tell you one of them is sold out?

[Dan Druff]

Rob you're a gem. And we all have you figured out. But you raise an interesting question.

Dan how do you know you are overcomped? Is there some sort of formula you use to determine what is a fair amount of comps or under comps or over comps?

I know because several hosts have told me.

I was told that I am so overcomped that I wouldn't even qualify for a comp room at a lower-tier Vegas property based upon my play versus comp redemption.

Rob, when you are able to show me logically how you win despite repeatedly paying -EV games, I will be impressed. Until then, I simply dismiss you as a losing player who tells tall tales on the internet for attention.

[Alan Mendelson]

Too bad Dan. I guess in the future you will be under-comped.

[Rob.Singer]

I know because several hosts have told me.

I was told that I am so overcomped that I wouldn't even qualify for a comp room at a lower-tier Vegas property based upon my play versus comp redemption.

Rob, when you are able to show me logically how you win despite repeatedly paying -EV games, I will be impressed. Until then, I simply dismiss you as a losing player who tells tall tales on the internet for attention.

If there were ever any "overcomped" players--ESPECIALLY ONES WHO ARE TOLD SO BY RESPONSIBLE CASINO EMPLOYEES--then they would quite simply be restricted and more than likely, face more aggressive punishment from the casino rewards system. That is simple common sense that has been in place for years.... and more than ever in today's environment--and far more than ever in today's CET situation.

You're again late to the game when it comes to me. I started playing profitably and without ever adding in the slot club fluff, in the latter part of 1996 part time, and full time since 1999. For years I wrote about it and provided big hit pictures in the paper along with critics having the ability to call the editor for W2G confirmation--which occurred quite often when you compare the small frustrated attendance here with a massive readership.It's how I made my living for 11 years. It's also how so many players just like you, all over the forums, have forever created sour grapes over my success. Their #1 effort has always been peeling down the onion after getting jaw-dropping confirmations (aka, when ALAN confirmed the existence of the machine with the funny $25 denomination insignia) to then claim how I just HAD to go on and lose what I won and more, just so they could sleep at night.

Now that you can see that I'm not a recent "Internet phenom" with the large winners along with the huge net profits I've posted, ask yourself how I can logically show you how I win. I'll save you the time: you're probably gonna want me to play a session or five with you witnessing them. But as soon as you do, arci and his ilk will come rolling out of their punishment liars to proclaim "don't fall for Singer's lies, because everybody knows that a progressive style of betting will yield at least 80% winning sessions, so it won't prove a thing". The Wizard and his group of den-ridden mathematicians were the most famous of the challengers to come up with that flimsy excuse as a way to both get out of the bet as well as to keep on blindly criticizing me.

So Dan, instead of finding reasons and ways to criticize me--which has all been done before and which has all failed--why not heed the advice of a long time professional player? It certainly can't hurt at this point. I'm not trying to impress anybody because I have never had to, and what looks like I'm stroking my ego is simply to let weak players know I am here to help...always for free. If you want to pay $250/hour, see the man who claims to win with your theories and the way you play--Bob Dancer.

[Dan Druff]

I have no interest in paying Dancer or anyone else for VP advice.

The hosts telling me I'm "overcomped" are not doing anything further to "punish" me because I don't affect them negatively (provided they don't do anything for me), and because I am not breaking CET rules by what I do.

I am simply utilizing their rewards program more aggressively than most, and playing the highest-return games they offer.

So they see me as someone who will lose playing VP, but will also suck up so many CET resources while doing so that it ends up costing them more money than my theoretical loss. This isn't something they will ban me for, but they're also not going to do me any favors.

If I were really doing everything the casinos wanted, then hosts would be trying to get me to stay, and lavishing all the comps they can onto me. Instead, they avoid me like the plague. That means I'm doing something right.

[Alan Mendelson]

Yep. You're now among the great unwashed under-comped. Welcome to the club. Enjoy the new Linq.

[Dan Druff]

Yep. You're now among the great unwashed under-comped. Welcome to the club. Enjoy the new Linq.

I'll enjoy it when I walk there from Caesar's.

[Dan Druff]

Yep. You're now among the great unwashed under-comped. Welcome to the club. Enjoy the new Linq.

Also, since you're the one not getting fresh soap and shampoo in your shower, it looks like YOU are the one who is unwashed, amirite?

[Rob.Singer]

Dan, here's another bit of gambling info that you might want to absorb. You claim to be "costing" CET because you get more comps than your "theoretical loss". That term is probably the most overused cliche' in the vp industry. They don't care about your "theoretical" loss. They only care about your ACTUAL loss. And if as a regular customer they cannot figure out how to make a REAL profit off of you, you will very simply be restricted and/or not allowed to play vp at their properties. Gaming Industry 101. So as a multiple years 7-Stars customer, there is no way you are overcomped.

[Dan Druff]

Dan, here's another bit of gambling info that you might want to absorb. You claim to be "costing" CET because you get more comps than your "theoretical loss". That term is probably the most overused cliche' in the vp industry. They don't care about your "theoretical" loss. They only care about your ACTUAL loss. And if as a regular customer they cannot figure out how to make a REAL profit off of you, you will very simply be restricted and/or not allowed to play vp at their properties. Gaming Industry 101. So as a multiple years 7-Stars customer, there is no way you are overcomped.

Rob, how can a gambling/Vegas veteran like you post such nonsense?

Do you really believe this?

Maybe you should talk to some actual casino employees and ask if these claims of yours are correct. You will find out some eye-opening things.

It's all about the theoretical loss. Casinos operate based upon mathematics and expectations, not superstitions or "systems".

Actual loss only matters when you are playing poorly, and thus it might be indicative that you're more valuable than the typical player playing the identical game and limits.

So VP players who seem to be losing at an alarmingly fast rate (especially over multiple sessions, without much history of play at expectation levels) may be "adjusted up" for their comps, as they are valuable to the casino.

However, for everyone else, they compute comps solely based upon the theoretical loss. They refer to it as "theo" when talking among themselves.

Here's a question for YOU, Rob:

How come hosts rebuff me whenever I call them and ask for anything? I'm not talking about extra comps or any major exceptions. I'm talking about things like the non-lodger situation I described for the upcoming Signature Event in Vegas. When I ask a host for this, I'm refused. When any non-overcomped player asks for it, he gets it. So if I am such a big money maker for CET, why are hosts doing all they can to keep me away? Why are these same exceptions being made for others?

I'm sure you see the obvious answer, but I'm also sure you will come up with a ridiculous explanation.

Look, Rob, you can go on with your nonsense about how I "don't know how to win" and how I need to take your advice to become a "winner", and there's little I can do to prove you wrong, other than present simple mathematics. However, you need to at least concede that I know how to work the CET system for maximum comps, and that I am pretty much the opposite of what they want to see as part of their Seven Stars program.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob, how can a gambling/Vegas veteran like you post such nonsense?

Do you really believe this?

Maybe you should talk to some actual casino employees and ask if these claims of yours are correct. You will find out some eye-opening things.

It's all about the theoretical loss. Casinos operate based upon mathematics and expectations, not superstitions or "systems".

Actual loss only matters when you are playing poorly, and thus it might be indicative that you're more valuable than the typical player playing the identical game and limits.

So VP players who seem to be losing at an alarmingly fast rate (especially over multiple sessions, without much history of play at expectation levels) may be "adjusted up" for their comps, as they are valuable to the casino.

However, for everyone else, they compute comps solely based upon the theoretical loss. They refer to it as "theo" when talking among themselves.

Here's a question for YOU, Rob:

How come hosts rebuff me whenever I call them and ask for anything? I'm not talking about extra comps or any major exceptions. I'm talking about things like the non-lodger situation I described for the upcoming Signature Event in Vegas. When I ask a host for this, I'm refused. When any non-overcomped player asks for it, he gets it. So if I am such a big money maker for CET, why are hosts doing all they can to keep me away? Why are these same exceptions being made for others?

I'm sure you see the obvious answer, but I'm also sure you will come up with a ridiculous explanation.

Look, Rob, you can go on with your nonsense about how I "don't know how to win" and how I need to take your advice to become a "winner", and there's little I can do to prove you wrong, other than present simple mathematics. However, you need to at least concede that I know how to work the CET system for maximum comps, and that I am pretty much the opposite of what they want to see as part of their Seven Stars program.

Here's where you should loosen up that tightly restricted mind of yours in order to understand how casinos operate a bit better. The word "theo" is, as I said, the most widely clichéd/overused word among vp newbies and those who aren't really in it to learn. It's figured into comps with a formula that takes into consideration much more than just theo. How do you think I've gotten so many endless rooms, comps, gifts, and cash over the years? Yes, by playing all those awful negative machines? The computers use theo; management doesn't. And this knowledge comes from interviewing casino managers and writing articles for Gaming Today.

Next let's visit what's much more important than "theo". Of course, it's ACTUAL loss or actual win. Two years ago I played only -EV games at Silverton, I won on 8 straight visits (never more than $2000 on a single visit) and they banned me from playing any more vp at the property. Why? BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF OF ME! When I posted this on vpFREE the big man e-mailed me and said he could probably get me off the ban if I wanted. I said thank you but no.

In 2004 or thereabouts I was banned from playing vp at Harrahs LV and Bellagio in the same month, and it was because I was winning too much. My theo was off the wall negative, but my actuals were just the opposite.

Right now in fact I cannot play any more vp at Fandango, and I've been restricted from getting any points or comps at the Eldorado if I play there again. I feel Peppermill breathing down my neck right now, which is why I've shifted over to Atlantis until we leave at the end of Oct. Why? Yes, because I've got threatening actuals at all these places. What's my "theo"? WHO CARES?


What I'm trying to show you is that no casino will allow a regular customer to consistently take them. So either you're losing more than you're getting in comps and not saying, or you're not keeping good records.

[Alan Mendelson]

On another forum (which I will not name) there is a forum participant who claims that he was banned by a certain casino company because he consistently won at craps -- or if not consistently he won a lot.

However, I know the casino company in question and the execs at that casino company and I happen to know that the forum member was banned for making libelous statements about the company on that same forum as well as other forums. It had nothing to do with winning and everything to do with him being a pain in the ass.

...just wanted to mention that.

[Rob.Singer]

If that was directed towards me Alan, the only thing I can say is I rarely rip a casino for anything. I did publish my "you're barred from playing any more vp" letter from Bellagio in GT, and Harrahs LV told me that's why they barred me verbally and didn't give me one. Besides, craps players tend to be on the grouchy side.

[Alan Mendelson]

No Rob, it was not directed towards you nor was it about you.

[Dan Druff]

Rob, please post the "you are banned" letters here.

[Rob.Singer]

It's "barred" Dan, and it was in 2004. Maybe you can locate it on the GT website.

[Dan Druff]

It's "barred" Dan, and it was in 2004. Maybe you can locate it on the GT website.

How about you locate it or just repost the proof here?