VP in Peoria, Illinois bars

[Vegas Vic]

A sampling of what I saw and did not play...

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't understand these paytables. Please explain?

[Vegas Vic]

What you see is what you get. They start at 4 coins ($1) and go to 8 coins ($2). I tried to compute the return on these games, but with an 8 coin payout, I wasn't sure how to do it. Maybe Arci could chime in. My guess is that these can't come out much better than 95-96%. Now that they have these monstrosities in bars, the Illinois casinos don't look so bad by comparison.

[regnis]

I actually posted these horrible pay tables in Illinois bars on another thread and arci did weigh in on it. If you can find the thread probably a year or so ago.


By the way, even though many cities in Illinois rejected the VP in bars law, they are generating a ton of $$ for our crooked politicians to steal.

[regnis]

See the thread referred to above which I have "livened".

[Dan Druff]

It looks like there might be some state law capping these machines at $500 max payout.

From what I can see, it looks like this is the order of how good the return is, from best to worst

5 coins or 8 coins (depends on the game)
6 coins
7 coins
4 coins

Basically, 6 coins and 7 coins are multiples of the same base paytables as 4 coins, except the royal flush is doubled (instead of being multipled by 6/4 or 7/4).

5 coins also has the royal doubled (instead of 5/4), so that's the second-best spot.

The straight flush ranges between 3.1x to 10x depending on the game when moving from 4 coins to 8 coins (where proportionately it would be 2x).

It's possible that the 5 coins is better than the 8 coins on triple-double.

The JoB paytable on 4 coins is standard 7-5, 1-coin payout, meaning the royal is 250 instead of 800. That costs you 1.37%, so the 96.14% game becomes 94.77%. You get 0.32% back from the increased straight flush payout on 8 coins, so you get 95.09% with max coins. Still sucks. 5 coins gives you 1.19% back on the increased royal, so that gives you a payout of 95.96%. So in JoB, you get the best deal playing 5 coins, but it's still worse than a standard 7-5 JoB game, which already sucks.

The DDB paytable on 4 coins is standard 7-5 DDB, 1 coin payout, meaning the royal is 250 instead of 800. That costs you 1.39%, so the 95.71% game becomes 94.32%. Yuck! The 8 coin game gives you 1280 on the straight flush (instead of 400), so that gives you 1.72% extra, which means the max play is 96.04%. The 5 coin game gives you 1.21% back for the extra royal payout, so that makes it 95.53%. In this game, the best payout is the 8 coin.

Not gonna bother with the Triple Bonus.

[Rob.Singer]

This is how dumb it is--and really, meaningless--to anyony actually playing these games for real--to get all excited about those theoretical percentages and come out claiming "these aren't playable" or the more sappy "yuk". People who have no idea what they're talking about, as in the above confused babble, do make silly attempts at being some sort of expert, but attempts are all they are.

What's the point in applying all those useless percentages to these games (some of which are wrongly calculated anyway). Is anybody really gonna play any of these in more than a hit & run proposition? And who cares if the royal or kicker hands are 2000 or 5000--you expect to hit those when you pop in for a visit? That's where all you amateurs get confused by vp games and why you all lose so much. You never use your heads, and you allow long term theory to control your thoughts and actual play.

Wise up people.

[arcimede$]

Kind of humorous that Singer would claim the payout on a Royal is meaningless yet posts pictures of them all the time. LOL.

Dan provides the basics so I won't need to add anything else.

[Rob.Singer]

Arci, you must have too much on your mind distracting you lately I had ONE big royal on $5 since the end of 2012. All those others that haunt your busy mind were quads. If that royal didn't hit, 2013's profit would have "shrunk" by a mere $18 or $19k. Now I know to you that can buy a lot of meds, but try to get your facts straight next time, again, please?

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually, Rob, you are making no sense. You, yourself, have said to play the best paytables. Yet, when someone points out bad paytables you say paytables don't matter because you are playing for the quads? But at the same time given a choice between 8/5 Bonus and 7/5 Bonus you say to always play the better paytable? Make up your mind already!

Or, are you just criticizing for the sake of criticizing... and trolling?

[Vegas Vic]

Or, are you just criticizing for the sake of criticizing... and trolling?

[IMG][/IMG]

[Rob.Singer]

Actually, Rob, you are making no sense. You, yourself, have said to play the best paytables. Yet, when someone points out bad paytables you say paytables don't matter because you are playing for the quads? But at the same time given a choice between 8/5 Bonus and 7/5 Bonus you say to always play the better paytable? Make up your mind already!

Or, are you just criticizing for the sake of criticizing... and trolling?

It the "pay attention" thing again. Yes, I've always said to play the best pay tables available WHERE you choose to visit. I've played many times at the Rio for instance, which has regularly had poor pay tables, when just next door there's one of those God-awful locals joints with much better pay tables. While at the Rio, it's common to find 6/5 BP and uncommon to find 7/5 or even 8/5. But if that's where I chose to play, then I'd look for the best available.

Same with this Illinois bar stuff. If that's where I went for a session and that's all they had, then that's what I'd play. Even less important is what the royal and kicker hands pay, which technically are part of the pay table but in any given session, they are not expected to be any factor whatsoever. And if they do hit, that's just as good since you likely wouldn't have hit either anywhere else on that particular day and time. Any machine can be beaten on any day. Think short term, because that is the only way any of us ever play. Casinos are the only entities that utilize long term theory and, actual long term results.

You should have been a GT fan when I wrote for them. You would not be so confused today.

[Vegas_lover]

Can anybody tell when Rob actually posted something useful around here? Looooooooooong time ago, don't bother and waste your time finding one useful post. Over 2000 posts of wasted bandwith.

[Alan Mendelson]

It the "pay attention" thing again. Yes, I've always said to play the best pay tables available WHERE you choose to visit. I've played many times at the Rio for instance, which has regularly had poor pay tables, when just next door there's one of those God-awful locals joints with much better pay tables. While at the Rio, it's common to find 6/5 BP and uncommon to find 7/5 or even 8/5.

Rob, when was the last time you were at the Rio? Only until a few weeks ago it was very common to find 8/5 Bonus. Now 7/5 Bonus is common. Where the heck is there 6/5 Bonus at the Rio?

I'm not confused. You are mixing up your facts, and your statements. Try to get them straight and stop trying to be the expert on things you don't know what you're talking about.

[Rob.Singer]

Rob, when was the last time you were at the Rio? Only until a few weeks ago it was very common to find 8/5 Bonus. Now 7/5 Bonus is common. Where the heck is there 6/5 Bonus at the Rio?

I'm not confused. You are mixing up your facts, and your statements. Try to get them straight and stop trying to be the expert on things you don't know what you're talking about.

2011, and before that 2009. You should know I don't frequent many casinos especially in LV any more.

All the bars had 6/5 BP at the Rio on every machine/every denomination. $5 & up had mostly 7/5 in the HL room as did a few progressives on the main floor. The $25 & $100 machines had 8/5.

You're confusion continues to lie in how you are simply unable to read with any meaningful comprehension. And that's why you skipped by my explanation AGAIN about when I say to play the best pay tables available. This stuff requires no "experts". Just a little experience and some simple common sense. Dan's the expert here, and his theory about hitting royals certainly is like "the nectar of the Gods".

[Vegas Vic]

2011, and before that 2009. You should know I don't frequent many casinos especially in LV any more.

All the bars had 6/5 BP at the Rio on every machine/every denomination. $5 & up had mostly 7/5 in the HL room as did a few progressives on the main floor. The $25 & $100 machines had 8/5.

You're confusion continues to lie in how you are simply unable to read with any meaningful comprehension. And that's why you skipped by my explanation AGAIN about when I say to play the best pay tables available. This stuff requires no "experts". Just a little experience and some simple common sense. Dan's the expert here, and his theory about hitting royals certainly is like "the nectar of the Gods".

So, if you haven't been to a casino in 3-5 years, kindly shut up and sit out any discussion about said casino in the here and now. Your "expert contribution" is absolutely worthless. What's next? Your analysis and recommendations of VP at the Stardust?