Rob Singer's Commentary

[Alan Mendelson]

I invited Rob Singer to send to me his articles/commentary for publication on my website. The first article is now online here: http://alanbestbuys.com/id362.html

I am posting the articles without any editing (except for formatting, with no changes to the content) and I am inviting everyone to read his commentaries and then comment about them here on the Forum.

By the way, I am also offering space on my website to other gambling professionals and experts who also want their commentaries posted. Please contact me if you have articles that you would like published.

[Count Room]

I remember Rob having hundreds of weekly articles on his VP Truth website over a period of several years (2000-2006 or so). It's a shame those articles weren't stored somewhere and re-submitted online. That's a lot of work destroyed otherwise.

[Rob.Singer]

I remember Rob having hundreds of weekly articles on his VP Truth website over a period of several years (2000-2006 or so). It's a shame those articles weren't stored somewhere and re-submitted online. That's a lot of work destroyed otherwise.

It was 2000 thru 2009. Ten full years, and almost 8 of the years' articles were also published weekly in Gaming Today. They are not gone, however. Before my web guy shut it down, he saved everything on vptruth.com on a flash drive and sent it to me. I have it in storage with my car and other old stuff. But it's always good to present new articles based on more recent info, analyses, and thinking as well as on new experiences.

[Count Room]

Rob sent me a PM explaining exactly how one's discipline can erode or be destroyed in a casino, and what can be done about it. I particularly liked the last few sentences he wrote. It was something I had never thought of before and it's something I will have to remember going forward:

Feel free to copy and post any of this at any time.

I learned everything I know about the dark side of what casinos do to people when I was an AP from 1990-1996. But if I didn't have that experience, I'd never have been able to see the unprecedented success I've seen since. So it's likely that almost everyone else is either where I used to be--or they are like so many others who cruise along using vp as some sort of "entertainment" tool and expect to lose in the process. Kind of like our host--who accepts the losing and enjoys the perks, all while constantly being in the casino's radar as they actually "control" what he does. At least he knows what's going on. Most don't.

First, you must have the DETERMINATION to follow thru on what it is you planned on doing--which of course is winning your minimum win goal (or losing up to your loss limit) then leaving immediately. Without determination, you will easily stumble right into the casino's hands. But it goes beyond all that. You've seen me rail against other posters who do everything the casinos want and expect losers to be doing, and there's a reason for it. When you finally tell yourself that things will change, you have to think in terms of which powers casinos hold over their players, and what it is that helps destroy their discipline either after winning or during losing. You do this, as I've said time and again, by doing EVERYTHING exactly the opposite as the casinos want & expect you to do. No casino credit, no casino ATM usage EVER, no drinking while playing, and NO TIPPING AFTER HANDPAYS. There's your start. Then when you win, NEVER stay and play, and NEVER go to a higher denomination on your next visit because of it until you actually have the full bankroll to do so. These are all things the casinos want and know most players will do. Learn to get satisfaction out of NOT doing them....out of being able at will to do what you want, not what THEY want you to do. Doing this will make you a happier and more fulfilled gambler.

The absolute toughest part of all that is getting up and leaving when losing your limit, esp. when you have a pocket still full of cash. Next toughest is getting up and leaving after attaining your win goal. Just think: you get a handpay, you're in a state of euphoria, and now you're first faced with beating that intimidation to tip. Then they finally leave, and you know you should leave but your craving for more action tries its hardest to keep you there. Here's the key: STOP & THINK while you're still sitting there wondering if you should really cash out your remaining credits or not, and the casino ambience, music, girls etc. are pulling at you to stay & play. Look at your money, then think about how nice it will be counting it out when you get home or back to your room. Also wonder what it would look like if all or most of it were GONE. I guarantee you, if you LOOK at the cash and go thru these steps, it will be much easier to just get up and leave. And once you actually do this, it gets easier and easier as you move forward.

EDIT: Would this mean Alan is handicapped since he uses markers and wouldn't be able to visualize the current cash winnings (or visualizing it all GONE) at home or in a hotel room?

[Alan Mendelson]

Let me respond to this comment: Would this mean Alan is handicapped since he uses markers and wouldn't be able to visualize the current cash winnings (or visualizing it all GONE) at home or in a hotel room?

When you play with markers you are also paid in CASH except when you decide to use the cash payouts to pay off or pay down your markers. If I take out a $1,000 marker and win $2,000 I have two choices: (1) pay off the marker and keep the cash, or (2) keep all the cash and then pay off the interest-free marker thirty days later.

Only once did I see a player who was asked to pay off his markers when they were going to give him a handpay. It was in the high limit room at Caesars and the player just hit a royal on a $10 machine for $40,000. A "suit" came over to him while they were getting the W2G and asked him "would you like to pay off your $10,000 in markers?"

I have never been asked to pay off markers, but I always do when I hit a big winner.

I hope that Rob writes a lengthy article about his beliefs on "tipping" and using "markers." I tip and I use markers. And I really would like to see ALL of his reasoning in one place, and in detail.

[slingshot]

At some point and time, I would like to see a article on 'RTT strategy can have many variations'. It has been lost from the site and I would think would make good topic. Thanks.

[Count Room]

When you play with markers you are also paid in CASH except when you decide to use the cash payouts to pay off or pay down your markers. If I take out a $1,000 marker and win $2,000 I have two choices: (1) pay off the marker and keep the cash, or (2) keep all the cash and then pay off the interest-free marker thirty days later.

Alan: Yeah, I'm totally unfamiliar with the concept of using markers for VP & slots. I've seen markers used a fair number of times at table games in the past, though.

When you take out a marker for the machines, do they just give you a TITO voucher for the marker amount just like they would give chips for a marker at the tables?

I was thinking you may have been unable to visualize the cash if your answer to that question is "yes" because there have been times when I hit a bunch of non-W2G quads for a nice win only to see it evaporate before leaving the casino.

If they do give you a TITO for your marker, I suppose it would be easy enough to cash it at the cage or cash dispensing machines any time you wanted to, anyway.

[Alan Mendelson]

You can ask for a marker for machines in either "cash" or TITO. When paid for a jackpot you can be paid either as cash or TITO -- it's your choice -- as well as having your marker paid off or paid down.

This is why I really want Rob to DETAIL all of the reasons he is so opposed to using markers. There is NO reason not to use markers. If for no other reason -- with a marker you get a 30-day INTEREST FREE LOAN. And of course there is absolutely no risk of carrying around large amounts of cash.

In fact, the only reason you might want to downplay markers is because you can't qualify for a credit line.

[Rob.Singer]

I'll do my next article on tipping and marker use. I have adequate experience in both. When I was an AP I both tipped and used markers. It turned out being part of my learning process.

[Count Room]

You can ask for a marker for machines in either "cash" or TITO. When paid for a jackpot you can be paid either as cash or TITO -- it's your choice -- as well as having your marker paid off or paid down.

This is why I really want Rob to DETAIL all of the reasons he is so opposed to using markers. There is NO reason not to use markers. If for no other reason -- with a marker you get a 30-day INTEREST FREE LOAN. And of course there is absolutely no risk of carrying around large amounts of cash.

In fact, the only reason you might want to downplay markers is because you can't qualify for a credit line.

Well that's interesting, Alan, thank you. I didn't realize markers are that flexible. I should mention most of my local casinos don't use them, but I will look into this further next time I go to Vegas or AC.

[Count Room]

It was 2000 thru 2009. Ten full years, and almost 8 of the years' articles were also published weekly in Gaming Today. They are not gone, however. Before my web guy shut it down, he saved everything on vptruth.com on a flash drive and sent it to me. I have it in storage with my car and other old stuff. But it's always good to present new articles based on more recent info, analyses, and thinking as well as on new experiences.

By the way, Rob, regular flash drives/memory sticks can only be relied upon for 5-8 years of data storage assuming they are handled with reasonable care. It's a good idea to create new backups of them every 3-4 years just in case...

[Rob.Singer]

I've thought some about how I'll do my next article which will focus on tipping, so I'll explain my marker use view here.

It's not that I'm against the versatility of having & using markers. If you have used one and you get a hand pay, why NOT have them pay it down or off immediately instead of taking a check or cash? But that's where the sense of even having markers begins and ends. An "interest free loan"? Really? Dancer used that one too, and it's not even original. When I had one of those dumb "hosts" at the MGM during my AP days, she used that line as a way of talking me into signing up for a $10k credit line. The critical point here is, no one should EVER be taking out loans of any kind to gamble with, whether you can afford them or not. Casinos don't care where you get your money to gamble with, and they don't care one bit about if losing the money causes you any kind of problems. They simply want you to play, which means you are once again doing things the exact way they want and expect players to do things.

The part about not having to carry cash around is extremely weak. EVERYBODY has cash on them in casinos and everyone already knows it. And there you are--gambling, which means you're more than ready to part with all of it. And people are deathly afraid that someone will risk incarceration taking chances that someone else might have a ton of it with them by trying to rob them in one of the safest environments known? I have never worn a sign saying I carry lots of cash. Do you? It's a CASINO people! You get cash, you go to the place, and you gamble. Why all the worry and self-intimidation? Are we that insecure?

Which gets us to the bottom line in all this--IT IS ONLY LOSERS AND PEOPLE WHO EXPECT TO LOSE that sign up for casino credit. Forget about being shortsighted about carrying around cash; forget about feeling like a casino big-shot; forget about using handpays as marker pay-offs for that "interest free loan" money you lost in the first place. THE FIRST LESSON IN LEARNING TO BECOME A CONSISTENT WINNER IN GAMBLING IS BY DOING EVERYTHING YOU CAN THAT'S DIRECTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT CASINOS WANT & EXPECT YOU TO DO! And no, I cannot say this loud enough. They WANT you to have easy access to your money at their casino. They WANT you to be able to tap into a credit line should you lose what you brought with you. They WANT you to look at their markers as some sick type of "interest-free loan". Everything about it, they do for THEM....NOT YOU!

Folks, if you use markers then you're letting the casinos play you like fiddles. And you need to wise up. The more things you are led into doing because the Casino made you think they're bestowing one of their special "benefits" upon you, the more probable it is you will lose your money because that's what's behind EVERY action a casino takes with and "for" it's customers. We need to look at casinos as one simple thing: a place to go in and come out with more money than we went in with. That's it. Begin to look at it in ANY other way....such as where your "friend", the "host" works, a "loan" office, or a location where you can get lots of "free stuff", and all you're doing is playing right into a casino's hands. They'll have you right where they want you. My gambling life has turned COMPLETELY around since I woke up to all this. Yours will too, if you choose to understand what I'm saying to you. You cannot successfully argue against simple common sense.

And Alan, I know you're approach to gaming is different from mine. You currently see it as "Oh, I''ve got nothing to do, so I think I'll take a drive to Caesars to have a couple of fun days in a free room, eat some free meals, get some interest-free money to go play some games with, and TRA-la-LA-la-LA....I don't really expect to win anything, but I'll get some wonderful entertainment in!" Life is good!

But that's not me or what I teach. I go for enjoyment AND I expect to win. If either of those ended then I would not go any more. And I train people to do the same. There's no need to train people who could just as well on their own go for a fabulous non-gaming location vacation that they PAID for.

[Rob.Singer]

By the way, Rob, regular flash drives/memory sticks can only be relied upon for 5-8 years of data storage assuming they are handled with reasonable care. It's a good idea to create new backups of them every 3-4 years just in case...

I wasn't aware. It's in a metal box that never gets moved. The facility is climate controlled if that means anything.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob's second article about "tipping" is now posted.

[Alan Mendelson]

Regarding Rob's comments about the use of markers:

Rob, you have reached the point of saying ludicrous things. While the marker represents an "interest free loan" it does not mean that you are "borrowing money" to gamble. It only means that the casino is letting you use their money to gamble WITH NO INTEREST BEING CHARGED while your money sits in your bank account or money market fund and continues to earn interest. Yes Rob, you can let your money earn interest while you use the casino's money to gamble with. And if you think you have an edge over the casino the use of the casino marker money will only add to your advantage and to your profit.

And I would never suggest to anyone that they carry large amounts of cash -- ever. There is no reason to. Just stop it -- carrying large amounts of cash is an invitation to lose it or even to get killed for it. I don't know anyone except for criminals (especially drug dealers) who want to carry around large amounts of cash in this day and age. Granted back in the 1950s and 60s before credit cards and travel cards such as Diners Club and Amex were popular people did carry large amounts of cash. But back then a "large amount of cash" was maybe $200 and a high income professional earned about $25,000 a year.

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, the "loan" issue escapes you. First you call it an interest free loan, then you don't, then you do again. And I understand your confusion. You look at it from only your point of view. It actually IS a loan, because no one but the customer knows whether they have the cash in the bank or on hand to pay it back should it be lost. That's why no one should ever use casino credit. You may always have the money waiting to pay down your markers, but you can be sure there are many who don't and have to shuffle the bills for a few months because of it. And again, it's something the casino wants you to do because they couldn't care less if the customer experiences financial problems because of it or not. They simply want you to play, and as a credit customer, you're one of the reasons Caesars is still in business. You are firmly in the pocket and under the full control of CET, and you don't usually win but you get all those fabulous freebies and special recognitions along with a big whoop card. That doesn't bother you?

You'll get killed for carrying cash? Huh? Has there EVER been an instance of that anywhere where there's casinos, and if so, can you be sure the death would not have occurred if the victim were carrying fifty bucks and a pack of very colorful cards along with marker strength? Talk about foolish statements....

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob... people get followed home from casinos and get killed pretty often. It only has to happen to you once.

Rob, can you get a credit line today?

[Rob.Singer]

Rob... people get followed home from casinos and get killed pretty often. It only has to happen to you once.

Rob, can you get a credit line today?

I haven't heard about any deaths because of carrying cash. I'm sure there have been some, just like anything else.

Can I get a credit line? I'm not really sure. Don't you need to have a job to qualify? And if you want to think this is why I'm against those things, you're missing another point. I teach people how to be responsible gamblers. People with casino credit lines almost always also have a bevy of other loans and an impressive collection of colorful credit cards with constant high balances. That's how it is in S. California, is it not....People have to drive cars they can't afford, spend money they don't have, and try to one-up each other's neighbor? It's all about having "credit" to them and it makes them feel special. And why would ANYONE ever want to give their financials over to a casino? Doesn't that sound foolish to you? C'Mon, THINK. You actually believe being that much on a casino's radar is something good? Oh wait....I'm looking at it from someone who expects to win's perspective. Now I see the disconnect.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob take a look at these articles about follow-home robberies from casinos:

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/stor...swgg--NMw.cspx
http://www.contracostatimes.com/brea...-arrested-five
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...9bb30f31a.html
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...-at-fault.html
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/...e-from-casino/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...mmerce-497902/
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...on-3077315.php

Rob you also wrote: People with casino credit lines almost always also have a bevy of other loans and an impressive collection of colorful credit cards with constant high balances. That's how it is in S. California, is it not... This is absolutely ridiculous and how can you reach such a conclusion?

[regnis]

Rob-I have been followed and attacked at Ballys in a hallway going to my room. I was lucky--another door opened and I ran into that person's room as the door opened. I try not to carry cash in Vegas. I settle markers at the table if I win and only take the profit. I used to use the safe deposit boxes until they were eliminated. If I have a big win, I have a bank account in Las Vegas and go there to deposit. I don't want it on me.

Here is a very recent one here in Illinois/Indiana.

http://wgntv.com/2014/04/16/palos-he...nds-at-casino/

They followed him a good 25 miles.