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Thread: "Free" strategies don't last forever

  1. #21
    I stated above that as long as people allowed enough time to play what should be your "normal amount," -- namely three/four hours in each place -- there should be no effects in booking rooms, shows, food offers simultaneously. If your rating requires you to play more than the "normal" amount, then of course there will be issues. You seem to be sidestepping what you said earlier, Alan. You have a distaste for people simultaneously booking offers, even if they fulfill their "normal" play. Plus, with CET's dismantling and new casinos opening, we are actually entering a fine era to start massive comp whoring, so if anything, it's time to gear up and abuse the various systems to the best of your ability.

    As to free play for sports betting, that would require a three-month survey and a handbook to answer properly. Offshore, you can get free play based on both number of bets and amounts, and also (some places) partial rebates on losses in a time period. In Las Vegas, there are some free play arrangements made for some people some places. The free play can be used in the casino or the sports book. I can't answer for all places for all people. Many sports book have their own separate arrangements even if they are technically part of the casino. Others (Cantor, William Hill) make their own arrangements with players.

  2. #22
    Time played is an issue but are you overlooking dollar volume? If your comps are based on four hours of $5 video poker play but you are now playing four hours of $2 games at two casinos your comp levels will not be sustained. Give it up redietz. You and the LVA comp whores can't fool the casinos

    On the other hand if you can play four hours per day of $5 VP at two casinos, a total of eight hours, then yes your levels will continue. But that's not milking the casinos... that's "getting what you play for."

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I stated above that as long as people allowed enough time to play what should be your "normal amount," -- namely three/four hours in each place -- there should be no effects in booking rooms, shows, food offers simultaneously. If your rating requires you to play more than the "normal" amount, then of course there will be issues. You seem to be sidestepping what you said earlier, Alan. You have a distaste for people simultaneously booking offers, even if they fulfill their "normal" play. Plus, with CET's dismantling and new casinos opening, we are actually entering a fine era to start massive comp whoring, so if anything, it's time to gear up and abuse the various systems to the best of your ability.

    As to free play for sports betting, that would require a three-month survey and a handbook to answer properly. Offshore, you can get free play based on both number of bets and amounts, and also (some places) partial rebates on losses in a time period. In Las Vegas, there are some free play arrangements made for some people some places. The free play can be used in the casino or the sports book. I can't answer for all places for all people. Many sports book have their own separate arrangements even if they are technically part of the casino. Others (Cantor, William Hill) make their own arrangements with players.
    I have always had my own arrangement with Caesars for my horse racing. This was separate and apart from table play. In the past, I was always able to use the horses for all my meals and entertainment. Since the room is always free, I could use table for a better room, airfare, and any extras I wanted without any problem because my host was relieved of most of these costs by my use of the race book (of which she had no knowledge as it was totally separate).

    But if you call or go into the race book, they will tell you that you don't earn any credits as that is their general rule. You must make your own deal. It helps sometimes with the Chicago connection as most of the race/sports book guys are from Chicago (it goes back to the bookie days still--it all used to go thru here).

  4. #24
    Originally Posted by RoeIncarnate View Post

    If CET goes down and is broken up that will probably be good for gamblers. Also if that project by the Trump is completed that will provide more competition.
    I don't think we can forecast what will happen if CET is broken up. Might MGM and the others offer less if CET isn't offering free rooms or if the surviving company scales back Total Rewards? Sometimes the status quo is best for consumers.

  5. #25
    I can't use my Caesars free play in the sports book and I've never heard of sports book comps except in special cases such as regnis cited. At Caesars by the way poker room comps are $1 per hour.

  6. #26
    Alan, I've tried to explain this to you, but your hearing isn't very good -- either when "never heard of sports book comps" or listening to me. Have you ever actually made a wager at the Palms before Cantor or the LVH, or at Caesars before the Harrah's takeover?

    Jesus, you are at sea when it comes to this stuff. For the record, 20 years ago the best sports book comps were at the LVH, Palms, and Circus-Circus (believe it or not). Now it's probably LVH. I'm talking basic comps without the private arrangements regnis mentioned. Twenty years ago, you got about $1 for every $200 at the best places. Now you can probably wrangle $1 for $600 various places. LVH is still $1 for $200-something, but the Westgate takeover could change that. Race and sports are different -- management deals with players face-to-face more and often actually knows them. There are myriad private arrangements, as regnis said.

    Race comps and sports were similar 20 years ago per dollar wagered. Now race gets much, much more than sports per dollar wagered. Sports has been cut back.

    As I said, this would take a three-month survey and a thick handbook to detail what goes on where. You know, Alan, I worry when you make a statement like "never heard of sports book comps." That's a touriste comment.
    Last edited by redietz; 07-07-2014 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #27
    I've asked you about free play, redietz. Do you get free play from sports bets?

  8. #28
    Your quote was "I've never heard of sports book comps." Did I misread that?

    Free play (for use in the sports book) is available some places, both offshore and in LV. Free play, for use in either the casino or sports book, is also available some places both offshore and in LV.

    Any other questions?

  9. #29
    Please tell us which sports books in the casinos in LV offer free play. Is it the kind of "free play" that requires you to check into a room as a guest in order to claim and use in the casino?

  10. #30
    Actually, not to be rude, but I've said before it would take a three month survey and a handbook to answer that. First of all, tourists playing $20 parlay cards are not going to get free play anywhere except possibly one or two places. Since just a small amount of my action is wagered in LV these days, I'm no expert, and the situations would be fluid and subjective, with the possible exception of one or two places where it would not be subjective or very fluid. The amount compensated for sports wagers is so miniscule on a per dollar basis that nobody betting sports makes decisions based on comps or free play. Most of the time, the gas you waste heading to the book with the better comps would negate the comps. The sports number differences are important; I shop 'til I drop. You're unfamiliar with that -- you don't shop and compare different companies. The comps/free play stuff is not important. If all things are equal and the better comps are just as close, yes -- you choose the place with better comps. But 90% of the time, it's a non-issue.

    People who are betting sports are not usually part of the tourist scene. As an example, if you wanted a room and a meal at the Wynn 10 years ago, you would have to bet at least 20K on a slow day for that -- and my info is dated. It may be much more now. On a busy day, double or triple that.

    The other thing is -- nobody should be motivated to publicly spell out if or where they got free play. That's like spelling out what your host did for you publicly. Maybe you think that's a good idea -- it's not. Decisions by sports books are subjective. Blabbing about "I got this or that" in public is a really bad idea.

  11. #31
    Alan-the attached article is a couple years old but gives a pretty good summary.

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/...s-meager-comps

    With respect to horse racing, the sports book can not lose. They haven't actually booked the bets for decades. It is all pari-mutuel. So the sports book has a hold of around 12% (it varies for every racetrack and for different types of bets) on every dollar bet. They actually prefer that the player wins his bet because they still get their 12% no risk and if you win, you will probably bet again.

    In theory, the comps for race betting should be huge, because of the fact that they can't lose. If a casino, for table games, gives back 30-40% in comps (on theoretical loss), then the horse player should get $4 to $5 back for every $100 bet. But that just isn't done, and at one time Caesars gave no comps for horses. As I said, I always had my own deal and it was different even between Caesars and Ballys. Mirage actually gave me the best deal but I didn't stay there and I never liked craps there so I only used it for meals and shows.

    For sports, they have their "juice" on each wager, but someone like Red can beat them. They do have risk. So the player does have to negotiate his own deal at each venue.

  12. #32
    Thanks regnis for the article and that is my understanding about comps at sports books. I don't know of any sports book that gives "free play" that can be used at table games or at video poker or slot machines. I am asking redietz to name just ONE casino in Vegas that offers that.

    My point in asking this goes back to the original subject of this thread: that free play offers as well as other comp offers will disappear if you don't keep up your play levels. Redietz originally said I was wrong while we all know that actual free play offers do disappear without continued play, and even free rooms and other comps will disappear if a player at the Caesars properties doesn't maintain 7 Stars or Diamond status.

    Comps are just not given out like candy on Halloween by casinos today. Maybe 30 years ago you could have had a buddy as a host who had power of the pen, but today the computers are in charge.

  13. #33
    My free rooms in LV (Total Rewards) have been solidly steady for maybe 6 or 7 years running... no complaints. CET free play in LV for me has gone from acceptable to non-existent except when they offer only a 2-3 night package and they throw in a few $$. With airfare being what it is, these monthly offers are basically worthless to me.

    At Caesars Windsor, free rooms for me have been solidly unsteady. It seems as if they show up when I least expect it and the freebie room has never been offered when a concert is in the house. Free and/or greatly reduced concert tickets are quite common. Free play is steady but greatly reduced from years past.

    At MGM Detroit, free play is steady but not spectacular, and reduced room rates are rarer than hen's teeth. They're really good at promotions offering "up to $25,000 free play Swipe and Win" ...and you actually end up with $10.

    At Greektown in downtown Detroit, my free play is similar to MGM, but reduced room rates are offered a lot. They are like MGM..lots of promotions for the locals.

    At some of the outstate casinos in Michigan I go to, the offers (food, rooms, free play) have actually been quite decent considering how infrequent I'm able to visit.

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