A response from fedomalley

[Alan Mendelson]

Fedomalley said that he is having trouble posting on this forum, and he asked me to post this response to Rob Singer for him. I have copied the message exactly as he sent it to me:

I'm not going to waste any more time discussing this "challenge". I made my terms clear from the onset and haven't waivered.

1. Pick a venue, either Laughlin or Vegas for play.

2. 15,000 hands at a minimum $1 denomination playing full coin. No restriction on the maximum denom.

3. I'll post up $30K cash with a mutually agreed and acceptable escrow agent. After 15,000 hands of play, whatever you win cumulatively on games, I'll match. Coversely, whatever you lose on play will be paid to me.

I'm not going to discuss altering the number of hands, flipping from one venue to another, etc. You can either take it or leave it, I don't care.

[Rob.Singer]

Fedomalley said that he is having trouble posting on this forum, and he asked me to post this response to Rob Singer for him. I have copied the message exactly as he sent it to me:

I'm not going to waste any more time discussing this "challenge". I made my terms clear from the onset and haven't waivered.

1. Pick a venue, either Laughlin or Vegas for play.

2. 15,000 hands at a minimum $1 denomination playing full coin. No restriction on the maximum denom.

3. I'll post up $30K cash with a mutually agreed and acceptable escrow agent. After 15,000 hands of play, whatever you win cumulatively on games, I'll match. Coversely, whatever you lose on play will be paid to me.

I'm not going to discuss altering the number of hands, flipping from one venue to another, etc. You can either take it or leave it, I don't care.

1. I understand that the 30 hours of play requirement is now changed to 15,000 hands. I accept.

2. The $30k escrow is acceptable. Once that limit is attained by either party that party has the right to quit - thereby superceding the 15,000 hand requirement if it occurs - since no escrow will be in place to cover any further winning or losing. Is this acceptable? If not and you have a problem with potentially not reaching 15,000 hands, how do you solve this? My solution is a $75,000 to $300,000 escrow.

3. I will only play $1 thru $25 in Laughlin, unless you do as I've asked and locate SDBP in $1 thru $25 denominations in LV. That town does not have $100 machines. This should not be a big obstacle to overcome if you really want this bet to happen. I do not understand your refusal to play in both locations. The travel is a much bigger issue for me coming from Phoenix.

Here's a little something for you to ponder, instead of listening to the flawed & biased words of arci & marcus--both of whom have very little knowledge of how I play regardless of how often they lie about it: I do win 80% to 85% of my sessions, and yes, the majority of those wins are in the "smaller" $2500+ range. However, there are many more larger wins than larger losses, and it's those larger wins that the AP critics just cannot accept & do not want to believe, are hit. The largest single-session loss I've experienced in over 300 sessions is $34,000. The strategy is structured to virtually eliminate a total loss of the $57,200 bankroll.

BTW--saying "I don't care" & "take it or leave it" makes it appear you want to escape this bet and wish it never happened. Either give this a good effort--or be better prepared next time.

Edited to add: You've read where I gave up on this bet because you spent days posting on LVA without responding to anything I've compromised with. I'll give it one more try and expect a response within 2 days. August is now out because I've made other plans. This will have to be after that.

RS

[Rob.Singer]

For those confused souls who have a thirst for knowledge about my play strategy--like the guy who parks cars, who must do his calculations on his 10-minute breaks--my average losing session loss is close to $3400. Yes the critics like to guess and assert that it's $57,200 because they have never looked at what the strategy entails from start to finish. I've had session losses under $1000 after completing play at the $100 machines. And since the majority of sessions end with a win--and many of those wins are well above the $2500 minimum--when I do lose 2 sessions out of 10, I am always far ahead by then.

[danfed]

I just posted a long reply to this but when I went to post it, it got deleted.

Anyway, let me try this again.

1. The issue of 15K hands came up as a result of me saying 30 hours at a minimum of 500 hands per hour. You indicated that your play speed was slower than this so that's why I suggested 15K hands. If you want to get to the 15K hands sooner than 30 hours, I'm good with that.

2. My offer is strictly contingent upon 15K hands. What's up for grabs is a maximum stake of $30K to either party. I'm not sure what you perceive as the problem with this? What's the worst case scenario....you hit a $25 RF for $100K....you recover whatever loss you've had until that point and then some. You opt to slow play from that point on out to protect your win. You get the casino win and my match up to $30K. What's wrong with that? This is a non-negotiable issue with me so you need to buy on this.

3. The only issue I have with multiple locations is logistics. I don't want to waste time going from Laughlin to Vegas when you decide you need to play $100 machines and then back to Laughlin to continue your play. I've already conceded to allow you to choose Laughlin over Vegas so this clearly demonstrates that I'm not splitting hairs...this is solely a matter of logistical convenience. Someone indicated that Casino Royale has the games in the denoms you prefer but I'm in CA this week so I don't have the ability to confirm this. If this is true, than I guess the matter is solved. If it's not true, than you need to choose one venue or the other.

I'm good with pushing this back if the August dates no longer work for you. If we can get agreement on the above, I'm sure we can find dates that are mutually suitable.

My "take it or leave it" response is that I don't believe we're making progress in this discussion. I continue to reiterate my original offer and you appear to want to change it. That's why I'm saying "take it or leave it".....I don't care either way but would prefer to make this happen but I don't want to beat the same thing to death over and over.

Balls in our court....let me know what you want to do.

[Rob.Singer]

I just posted a long reply to this but when I went to post it, it got deleted.

Anyway, let me try this again.

1. The issue of 15K hands came up as a result of me saying 30 hours at a minimum of 500 hands per hour. You indicated that your play speed was slower than this so that's why I suggested 15K hands. If you want to get to the 15K hands sooner than 30 hours, I'm good with that.

2. My offer is strictly contingent upon 15K hands. What's up for grabs is a maximum stake of $30K to either party. I'm not sure what you perceive as the problem with this? What's the worst case scenario....you hit a $25 RF for $100K....you recover whatever loss you've had until that point and then some. You opt to slow play from that point on out to protect your win. You get the casino win and my match up to $30K. What's wrong with that? This is a non-negotiable issue with me so you need to buy on this.

3. The only issue I have with multiple locations is logistics. I don't want to waste time going from Laughlin to Vegas when you decide you need to play $100 machines and then back to Laughlin to continue your play. I've already conceded to allow you to choose Laughlin over Vegas so this clearly demonstrates that I'm not splitting hairs...this is solely a matter of logistical convenience. Someone indicated that Casino Royale has the games in the denoms you prefer but I'm in CA this week so I don't have the ability to confirm this. If this is true, than I guess the matter is solved. If it's not true, than you need to choose one venue or the other.

I'm good with pushing this back if the August dates no longer work for you. If we can get agreement on the above, I'm sure we can find dates that are mutually suitable.

My "take it or leave it" response is that I don't believe we're making progress in this discussion. I continue to reiterate my original offer and you appear to want to change it. That's why I'm saying "take it or leave it".....I don't care either way but would prefer to make this happen but I don't want to beat the same thing to death over and over.

Balls in our court....let me know what you want to do.

Dan, 15,000 hands is fine with me regardless how long it takes or how many trips I have to take to Nevada to complete them. I've even said we can do 300 hours worth in order to mitigate what you say was a typo on your part. But this is a CHALLENGE and it is not an EXHIBITION by me. The money has to be there to collect in full without exception throughout all the hands to be played. Perhaps all your past blind bad-mouthing of me has stepped in the way of what you think you're trying to accomplish with this. Now it's payback time, and you need to put your money where your mouth is and has been all along. I could hit any number of huge winners just like I've done when I played the strategy professionally. That seems to be the crux of the matter...that you, due in part by brainwashing by arci and marcus, want to ignore that the big winners do come, and they come much more often than the big losers.

I guess I'm perplexed as to why you won't come up with at least $75k, and why, if you don't have it, you can't get it from all your AP friends who you say never have losing years. I would still stop as soon as I hit +$75k in profit, but there's less of a chance that it will happen now. I'll tell you what: you do that, and I'll find the games I want to play all in LV. Saying something is non-negotiable when you make an incomplete original challenge doesn't bode well for the AP's of the world.

Casino Royale has SDBP up to $5.

[danfed]

Let's stick to the issue at hand. 15K hands will not validate or negate the virtues of your system so this to me is just about making money.

Forget about Arci, Marcus, et. al. This is just about me thinking I can make some money off of you.

I told you that I'm willing to put up $30K. Nothing more; nothing less. I'm not going to debate how many times your win exceeds this when you were playing professionally; it's not of issue here. If you were able to replicate that kind of result in these 15K hands, you'd book a big win from the casino AND $30K from me. If that's not a big enough bonus or incentive for you then I'm out.

Once again, forget about your silly comments about AP's....this isn't about anyone else or any group of people...just you and me. You have no idea who my friends are and I wouldn't even consider asking anyone to partner in this.

So, are you in or out on a chance to win $30K from me?

I'm sure you have the ability to limit your "ramp up" so that my measly $30K stakes will be within the constraints of your win goal. $30K for approximately 30 hours of work gives you the ability to win casino money and $1K/hr. from me. Not sure how many people you know who has that kind of earn rate. Any reasonable person who believes with the apparent conviction that you have in your system would think this is pretty easy money given the time investment. It makes no sense to me why this isn't a lucrative enough deal for you.

It's mutually tiring to keep discussing this and rehashing the same old points. That's why I'm at the point of saying "take it or leave it". I'd rather have this happen than not but but sitting here debating it without getting to consensus is a waste of time for both of us.

Dan

[Rob.Singer]

Dan, why not just admit you didn't really know what you were doing when you lost it with those "two twits" you wrongly (big burprise) accused of being me, and then rolled an incomplete, totally uninformed challenge off your fingertips. You were so overcome with how I said I can--and have consistently--beaten -EV machines for the past 10 years that it clouded your judgement. I do understand that.

As I said, this was presented to me as a challenge, not the exhibition you're trying to change it to now. I'm not that interested in your $30k--I'm interested in doing exactly what you asked for in your challenge: taking a match for every dollar I win from the machines, from you. I could lose $30k a day for the next 3 months and still be set for retirement, big deal. Watching you eat all those untruths you tell about me on the forums while you squirm as your money disappears into my pockets is what this is all about.

I don't waste all our spare time taking my wife to casinos to play 5 & 10-play low-limit machines just so I can top-load Rick's Royal Report thread. But if you want to create a challenge that makes sense for 3 or 30 or 300 or 3000 hours, then put it together properly--and make it worth my time because long hours in casinos to me is not how I enjoy my social life. In fact, let me design a sensible potential challenge for you and from you to me here, right now:

1. I'll play X amount of sessions of my Single-Play Strategy (SPS). You name the number and I'll play them, but I have to finish the last one. The higher the number you choose, the better it is for me, since the math says the more I play the closer I'll get to the 85% session win-rate expectation that the strategy was developed to attain.

2. No dollar-for-dollar match. A bet on final results will suffice. You're the one who claims I won't ever be ahead and that I'll never hit any big winners, so this should be a slam dunk for you. If I'm ahead at the end of the determined # of sessions, you pay me. If not, I pay you. Simple, right? Amount escrowed TBD, but again, make it worth my time.

3. I'll play anywhere in Nevada that YOU want me to play.

4. There will be none of this "The bet won't prove anything either way" nonsense. Put it together so that it WILL mean something, otherwise I'm just gonna take your and the missus' gambling money away from you for nothing. And at the completion of the challenge, the loser will post how they've been wrong about the other all along....and on all the forums.

I believe this nicely takes care of all the holes you left in your original challenge--except the amount of escrow. I can post this challenge on vpFREE if you'd like, and maybe some other AP's would like some of the action.

[Vegas_lover]

To mister Singer,

I've been reading everything about this bet on LVA and on this website. I don't know Dan and I do not know you. I'm not a VP-player so I don't know much about your strategy. I've looked at the little video footage about your special plays, and as far as math is concerned, what you're stating is complete BS. The only thing I've seen (as an outsider) is fedomalley making a general offer about a bet. He has stated over and over again his rules for the bet. Since he's inviting you for the bet, it's his call to tell what the bet is all about. All you have done in response (for the last several weeks) is throw mud and insults and change the rules of the bet in every single post you made. With that you have just shown, you are the one that has NO INTENTION AT ALL in making this bet happen. With that, you are clearly showing you are not convinced about your own system because you have experienced (multiple times) that it doesn't work. Otherwise, you would have jumped on Dan's offer as flies on s**t.

Adding up your poor communication skills and the fact that you're constantly avoiding your chance to earn a lot of easy cash brings us TRUE outsiders to the following conclusion: there is no credibility to find near you in about a 100 miles.....

If this bet does not happen there will be no doubt worldwide that you are the main reason for that!

A European Las Vegas traveller...

[Rob.Singer]

Have you not read that the owner of this forum doesn't put up with vulgarity & lie after lie created out of frustrations??

[Vegas_lover]

If that were truly the case......you would have been banned long before me joining this forum.......

[danfed]

Have you not read that the owner of this forum doesn't put up with vulgarity & lie after lie created out of frustrations??

You're kidding, right? Not sure how much A.M. had to delete from your previous rant about me but you couldn't hold up your side of the initial request and agreement that we be cordial in all of this.

"Amount escrowed TBD, but again, make it worth my time."

Again, who are you kidding? 30 hours or play (or less if you play at a faster rate than 500 hph) and you can win up to $30K from me. That's $1k/hr. or $2M a year annualized. Once again, that's my offer. If it's too paultry for you to consider, let's not do it. However, I would once again say that for any impartial party that reads this, they'll draw their own conclusion that I would suggest wouldn't be favorable to your claims. Unlike you, I never said that I couldn't lose. In fact, with only 15K hands, luck more than math will play into the final outcome. So, once again, please don't put words in my mouth.

Just let me know if we're going to do this or not...anyone who's followed this would agree that $30K is sufficient potential reward for the amount of "work"; especially with your claim of 80+% of success.

Dan

[Vegas_lover]

However, I would once again say that for any impartial party that reads this, they'll draw their own conclusion that I would suggest wouldn't be favorable to your claims.

Dan, this bet will never happen and the impartial party knows exactly why. What Mr. Singer fails to see is that you have nothing to prove. The only person that has anything to prove in this bet is him. Now, if he was so sure about himself he would have jumped on your offer by now. 95% of the people worldwide would be glad to make 60.000 in 30 hours. No, we're not talking 30.000 but at least 60.000 because Mr. Singer has to be up 30.000 first before getting your 30.000 from the bet. The fact that Mr. Singer hasn't jumped on top of your offer until now speaks volumes........But than again, I'll bet you 10 dollars he will just come back with a flaming comment about how stupid everybody is (especially AP-ers) without actually really (and I mean REALLY) committing to the bet.