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Thread: "Overcomped" Seven Stars players should avoid hosts

  1. #1
    I have talked a lot lately about being an overcomped Seven Stars member.

    What is "overcomped"?

    It's where you have used more of the casino's resources (freeplay, hotel rooms, free food, other offers) than you have recently generated in play.

    I say "recently" in that the casinos have a relatively small window (based both upon time and number of trips) where they will give you comps based upon your last play. Even if you played a whole lot in 2012, it's going to mean very little now if your play has been light since then, especially if you've visited Caesars since then and used their rooms/offers/freeplay/resources.

    How do you know if you're an overcomped Seven Stars?

    If your offers have fallen below $100 freeplay, you are probably overcomped.

    If you have many trips where you stayed or used other freebies and didn't play much, you are probably overcomped.

    If hosts always seem to hesitate or refuse to do anything for you, you are probably overcomped.

    So basically hosts look at your account when you call and ask for anything, and they see you're in the negative. I don't mean you're in the negative as far as whether you've won or lost money, but rather in the negative regarding what they can give you comp-wise. In fact, the amount of money you're up or down overall doesn't matter, unless you've lost an extreme amount compared to the play you've put in (or unless you've played really high limits).

    Hosts will NOT want to help players like you for two reasons:

    1) They aren't supposed to. They are trained to not waste company resources on players who are likely to just suck them up and give nothing (or little) to the company in return.

    2) They don't get anything out of it. Hosts earn a commission based upon your play. When you don't play, they don't get commission. Furthermore, they can get disciplined, fired, or penalized by comping too many players who don't produce. It is part of the host's job to evaluate who is best to receive casino comps.


    Occasionally you will get a host who is either nice or lazy (or sometimes both), and don't bother to look things up. They just see you're a Seven Stars, and will do you the favor, provided it's something small. But that's uncommon.

    For the most part, hosts actually thwart overcomped Seven Stars rather than help them.

    On the flip side, the CCS (800 number) does not operate this way. This is because CCS reps only see your tier status, but cannot see any details regarding your actualy play (or lack thereof). Therefore, the super-whale Seven Stars member looks the same as an overcomped Seven Stars grinder like me. These reps are actually told to try to go out of their way to help Seven Stars members, and are somewhat empowered to bend the rules in order to accommodate you. Some will, and others will refer you to a host.

    But if you're an overcomped Seven Stars member, NEVER allow them to transfer you to a host to "make an exception", unless they absolutely can't help you at the CCS and you're out of options. Instead, ask for a CCS supervisor and tell them, "I would prefer not to bother my host over this", and they will often help you.

    This isn't illegal or against CET rules, but simply putting yourself in the best spot to talk to the people who can help you the most.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #2
    What is CCS and what's your point here? I think most players realize they can only get so much based on their play.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    What is CCS and what's your point here? I think most players realize they can only get so much based on their play.
    The CCS is the 800 number to reach the Caesars reservations center. CCS stands for Casino Customer Service, but it's kind of a misnomer. It's just for reservations, not customer service.

    You reach them at 800-CAESARS.

    So what is my point?

    My point is that the CCS will do more for an overcomped Seven Stars member than a host will.

    Most people don't realize this, and just call their host when they need or want something. Calling your host is the right play for most people, but the CCS is better when you are overcomped, because they can't see that you are overcomped, while the host can.

    This isn't just a theory or guess. I have tried it both ways for the identical reservation, and the CCS is always willing to do more for me. The only exception is when there is something outside of their scope of power.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  4. #4
    If I call the regular reservations number they will not talk to me and immediately transfer me to a host. I've tried to call to make a reservation without a host and can't. I also can't book anything online. The computer says "call your host."

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The computer says "call your host."
    Flagged account?

  6. #6
    Other than booking a room or honoring an offer, what else can the CCS do that is "extra"?

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by jpfromla View Post
    Other than booking a room or honoring an offer, what else can the CCS do that is "extra"?
    Nothing.

    I should have been more specific that the CCS can only book rooms/offers.

    They aren't a replacement for hosts, but when it comes to getting comp rooms or certain exceptions made on offers, they are often more helpful than hosts if you are an overcomped player like me.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    If I call the regular reservations number they will not talk to me and immediately transfer me to a host. I've tried to call to make a reservation without a host and can't. I also can't book anything online. The computer says "call your host."
    I'll be honest. I've never heard of anyone but you having this situation.

    I believe you, but it's weird.

    I know you had a situation where your sister-in-law used your RCs for her own room or something, claiming you were going to be there soon (or something to that effect).

    Is it possible that they flagged your account for potential fraud after this, and require you to speak to a host to get anything done in the future?

    Perhaps figure out the date that happened and then figure out the date you started seeing that "call your host" message.

    It's also possible that your high tier score in recent years made them afraid to let the CCS handle your bookings, as maybe they always wanted a host keeping track of you.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  9. #9
    Even before the incident with my sister-in-law I could not book a trip online, and I was always transferred to a host.

  10. #10
    Hi Alan:

    Sometimes I like booking through a host but sometimes when I don't have a host relationship at the location, I DIY on the website to utilize an offer.

    I agree it is odd that you cannot book on the website as it saves CET money, time and (perhaps) the host commission.

    After I return from a trip I receive a Questionaire from CET asking, among other things, whether I like to book on the website or through a host. Maybe you once informed CET that you only want to book through a host and that is why you only have that option.

  11. #11
    I book all my trips with an "off site" host who deals with all the CET casinos. She worked for Harrah's many years and knows a lot of its folks and how to really work the system. Whenever there seems to be any question, for instance on our last flight to New Orleans the Harrah's staff screwed around so long booking it the at flight almost doubled in cost -- my host called around and Tunica Horseshoe picked up the extra $600. She does all kinds a great things for me. Once, I inadvertently left my favorite shirt at Harrah's Tunica Hotel and when I called they told me that the rooms had already been cleaned and there was nothing they could do. I told her about it and, bingo, the next thing I knew the shirt was being sent to me by the hotel. Finally, she is always available by phone or email when I travel and if I ever have a problem I just contact her and it is quickly resolved. So nice to have such a guardian angel.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by carolinajacket View Post
    I book all my trips with an "off site" host who deals with all the CET casinos.
    Ahhh !! You have an "independent host" who really does get a percentage of your action. Can you give us any insight into how your host is paid?

  13. #13
    I haven't the slightest idea. It does not seem to affect any of my costs. In fact, as I described above, it has only gotten us additional goodies. For my wife's birthday last September we drove over to Cherokee and found that we had been booked into the top suite -- we have stayed in many nice ones, but this one made the others look like Skid Row. When we got back to the suite a bottle of nice Champaign and a platter of delicious chocolates awaited us. I'm afraid to ask for too many details. You know about a gift horse and all that.

  14. #14
    You don't pay for the services of an "independent host" -- they are paid by the casino to get you in the door and to stay there.

    I know a couple of independent hosts who hang out at Caesars when they bring in RICH clients from Chicago and they are usually football or basketball players and have their own reserved craps table at Caesars.

    Independent Hosts really do look out for you -- because it is your action that pays them.

    I don't want to pry -- but you must be a pretty good player.

    I used to date a gal who ran charter buses to the casinos at Primm and then on to Vegas and she told me how her business worked. They were 24 hour round trips from Orange County to state line and then downtown Vegas and back to Orange County. The bus would make two stops -- Primm (stateline) for three hours -- and then deliver the passengers to a downtown Vegas casino before the trip home. Each casino paid her $30 per HOUR for each passenger who got off the bus. So at State Line she was paid $90 per passenger and then downtown she was paid bigger bucks.

    Using that info, imagine what an Independent Host gets paid for bringing in a high roller?

  15. #15
    Alan, that's very interesting about the buses. I knew that these "free" buses were getting paid by the casino (obvious), but I didn't realize $90/passenger at Primm and even more at downtown. Wow. Maybe I should look into starting a charter bus company.

    Also, I didn't realize that there were independent hosts who worked Caesar's. I knew of independent hosts who worked some of the Vegas clubs, but I always thought that the casinos only allowed their own hosts to bring action. How does one become an independent host? Do you need some sort of connection to the casino, or do you just offer to bring in whales and ask for a piece of their action? What would stop a friend of a whale from calling himself an "independent host" and splitting the benefits with the whale?

    I think an independent host could actually do well working with CET, as they are so incompetent operations-wise that a little prodding by an outsider (with access to do such prodding) could really do wonders. Carolinajacket's stories are a few examples of this, where CET screwed up (or couldn't make something happen) and the independent host was able to use their influence to fix the situation.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  16. #16
    Back when I was a big player, I had a series of very good hosts at Caesars. However, I also had an independent host that I used when I was going to Caesars for a purpose other than gambling. He could lump me in with a group he was sending from Chicago so that my lack of play didn't adversely effect anything. I would get all the comps for up to 4 days without any gaming requirement. He did this for me because, even though there was nothing he could do for me here in the Midwest, I let him be designated as my host here so that he got a percentage of my theoretical in Indiana and Illinois.

  17. #17
    Well Alan, I doubt that I am nearly as high a player as you and most of these folks, but I am five star, so a pretty high player. My host works for a junket company, but she also does individual trips for me. Last weekend to NOLA, this weekend for a quickie at Cherokee. She flew us over to The Bahamas for the Fourth of July, which included a full meal, drinks, and music on the beach as well as the most impressive fireworks program I have ever seen. We have thoroughly enjoyed our relationship with her for the last four or so years.

  18. #18
    A couple of years ago I did a story about an independent casino host. See it on this page of the main website: http://alanbestbuys.com/id335.html He told me that if you have a budget of $5,000 or more per trip an independent host would get you a better deal than an in-house host. I've never used an independent host however.

    Dan, regarding setting up your own bus service: yes, I guess that's why this gal was able to retire after being in business all of about four years. She also sold her company to another company for big, big bucks. But she also told me that the insurance for these trips skyrocketed -- she used leased buses and the trip insurance went from literally a few dollars per trip to hundreds of dollars per trip. Again -- leased buses which meant a very small initial start up cost.

    In fact, I think all of the San Diego casinos lease their buses from various charter companies.

    So, Dan, what sounds better: The Poker Fraud Alert Bus to Vegas, or the Best Buys Bus to Vegas?

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    So, Dan, what sounds better: The Poker Fraud Alert Bus to Vegas, or the Best Buys Bus to Vegas?
    I'm thinking more of a slogan like; "To boldly go where no casino bus has gone before".

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    I'm thinking more of a slogan like; "To boldly go where no casino bus has gone before".
    That's not bad!!

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