Proceed with caution when using the Total Rewards Gift Card

[Nash]

So the Nash's were in Las Vegas for the video poker tournament the last weekend in July. We took our $500.00 gift card we received as one of our signature experiences. A few of the restaurants we ate at took the card with no problems however a few times at Starbucks in Harrah's and Toby Keith's restaurant said they took the card but were having problems running it at the time. We decided to charge our coffee and Toby Keith's to our room and then when we checked out in VIP we used the gift card for the charges. Several weeks later I noticed we were billed $10.00 on our AMEX for the tip at Toby Keith's. I was under the impression the gift card could be used for tips. When I checked with my host at Harrah's she said the $10.00 tip did not show up until after we checked out. Today I went on CET website and checked my rewards credits that were redeemed and noticed they took the total room charge off my RC'S. I just called the number on the back of the gift card and listened to an automated message which gave me a list of my transactions. Well, sure as s _ _ _ t the same amount they took from my RC'S was also deducted from my gift card.

I am curious if anyone else has had issues using their gift cards. I have a call into my host. Hopefully she can straighten this mess out.

[Alan Mendelson]

I would first dispute the charge with Amex.

I have not had a problem with the gift cards. The tips have always been on my statement at check out. But I can understand how a "late entry" for the tip could cause a problem.

Frankly, I think they should "eat" the charge if they can't go back and charge your TR Gift Card. I suspect they will say they can't run the charge against your gift card -- well tough noogies on them. That's why I say dispute the charge with Amex.

[Nash]

Alan,

When you go to Vegas do you charge everything to your room and then check out using your gift card or do you use your gift card when your bill comes at the restaurants?

[Dan Druff]

So the Nash's were in Las Vegas for the video poker tournament the last weekend in July. We took our $500.00 gift card we received as one of our signature experiences. A few of the restaurants we ate at took the card with no problems however a few times at Starbucks in Harrah's and Toby Keith's restaurant said they took the card but were having problems running it at the time. We decided to charge our coffee and Toby Keith's to our room and then when we checked out in VIP we used the gift card for the charges. Several weeks later I noticed we were billed $10.00 on our AMEX for the tip at Toby Keith's. I was under the impression the gift card could be used for tips. When I checked with my host at Harrah's she said the $10.00 tip did not show up until after we checked out. Today I went on CET website and checked my rewards credits that were redeemed and noticed they took the total room charge off my RC'S. I just called the number on the back of the gift card and listened to an automated message which gave me a list of my transactions. Well, sure as s _ _ _ t the same amount they took from my RC'S was also deducted from my gift card.

I am curious if anyone else has had issues using their gift cards. I have a call into my host. Hopefully she can straighten this mess out.

This is really bad.

While I've never had a TR Gift Card, I can tell you that mistakes like this rob players of their RCs all the time.

Various errors (usually involving internet charges) have resulted in hundreds of dollars of bogus RC charges over the years, which I have caught and painstakingly made them put back.

One problem with the CET billing systems is that they default to charge your RCs for many items, even if you have a credit card on file. Unlike your credit card, it's difficult to see your RCs have been charged. (I would suggest checking monthly on the TR website, by looking at your TR statement.)

So if your gift card doesn't work for some reason, they just automatically charge your RCs for everything they can, and then bill your credit card for any gratuities (which can't be charged to RCs). All while you have no idea this is happening.

Even when everything appears okay at checkout, sometimes they will bill your RCs or credit card when the "night auditor" (whatever/whoever that is) finds a discrepancy.

It's an awful, customer-cheating system.

Oh, you also lost 8% by charging these to your room, because you got stuck paying the tax, whereas had you used them directly at the restaurants, the tax would have fallen off. But obviously that's the least of your problems here.

The double-billing is actually fairly unusual for CET (usually the billing is just wrong, not double), but not surprising.

Last year, I was at Caesar's and it was charging me every day for internet. These charges added up to over $100 because I was using multiple devices and taking the most expensive (property roaming) option, as I was supposed to get everything free as a Seven Stars. Well, it turned out they mis-coded the most expensive option and it was charging all of the Seven Stars when it shoudn't have -- likely for months. I was the first one to catch it. (I'm guessing many thousands of dollars of RCs got erroneously charged this way, to Seven Stars members.) Until it was determined what had actually happened, they kept sending me back and forth between Total Rewards and the VIP checkin. Each was passing the buck and telling me to go see the other, until finally I had enough and told them that I refused to continue with this. (Both sides claimed it was under the other's control.) The front desk VIP manager finally called me and admitted that it was a fault on their side, and apologized. I had wasted over an hour on this. He gave me a $75 food credit for my trouble.

I would call your host and demand this is fixed immediately, or you will never return to CET properties.

[Dan Druff]

This is the type of crap that should never happen.

Notice that Nash is not someone like me who tries to squeeze every ounce of value out of CET.

She and her husband are casual players who just want to enjoy themselves, and are the type of customers CET should really appreciate. Instead, they have to put up with all of the incompetence and the hard-to-fix billing errors, including ones that just secretly creep up after you've checked out.

Most people are not as forgiving as Nash. They just give up and move to MGM or elsewhere.

It amazes me that CET doesn't hire some consultants to evaluate and do away with these sorts of problems. Every time I'm at a CET property, I hear people (usually high or medium rollers) grumbling about the fail and incompetence there.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan,

When you go to Vegas do you charge everything to your room and then check out using your gift card or do you use your gift card when your bill comes at the restaurants?

I've done it both ways. At the Gordon Ramsey restaurants I paid with the gift card, including tips, at the restaurants.
With room service I charge to my room, including tips, and pay at check out.
At Central at Caesars which does not accept the TR Gift Card, I charge to my room and then pay at check out including tips.

[Alan Mendelson]

While I've never had a TR Gift Card, I can tell you that mistakes like this rob players of their RCs all the time.

Dan... Reward Credits are not an issue. You cannot use Reward Credits to pay for tips. This is strictly a case of the tip money being charged to either his AMEX Card or to his Total Rewards Gift Card.

I was discussing this with a friend tonight who suggested that if Caesars insists the tip must be paid, that the Nashes can call their host or the front desk and read them the account number on the gift card, and they should be able to debit the gift card accordingly. The gift card works like a MasterCard so all that is needed is the account number on the card.

The Nashes should speak to their host. My guess is Caesars/Host will take care of the tip and not bother the Nashes for $10.

Once, and only once, movie charges showed up on my bill. I check my bill nightly on the TV. I simply called the front desk and the charges were instantly removed. Also, I had both Internet and TV free -- while (I think) it's one or the other.

I also check my bill at checkout to be sure the charges are correct and the payment options are correct -- whether RCs or Gift Card or via credit card or cash. (Once the charge was $12 and I paid cash.)

I am sorry you have so many problems. You probably have more problems than any Caesars customer in the history of the company.

[Dan Druff]

Dan... Reward Credits are not an issue. You cannot use Reward Credits to pay for tips. This is strictly a case of the tip money being charged to either his AMEX Card or to his Total Rewards Gift Card.

I was discussing this with a friend tonight who suggested that if Caesars insists the tip must be paid, that the Nashes can call their host or the front desk and read them the account number on the gift card, and they should be able to debit the gift card accordingly. The gift card works like a MasterCard so all that is needed is the account number on the card.

The Nashes should speak to their host. My guess is Caesars/Host will take care of the tip and not bother the Nashes for $10.

Once, and only once, movie charges showed up on my bill. I check my bill nightly on the TV. I simply called the front desk and the charges were instantly removed. Also, I had both Internet and TV free -- while (I think) it's one or the other.

I also check my bill at checkout to be sure the charges are correct and the payment options are correct -- whether RCs or Gift Card or via credit card or cash. (Once the charge was $12 and I paid cash.)

I am sorry you have so many problems. You probably have more problems than any Caesars customer in the history of the company.

Nash had her RCs docked in addition to her Amex tip charge.

How do you know they never billed you for Internet? It doesn't show up on your final bill when they do.

[Alan Mendelson]

Nash had her RCs docked in addition to her Amex tip charge.

How do you know they never billed you for Internet? It doesn't show up on your final bill when they do.

If Nash had RCs docked they were not for the tip. RCs are not docked for a tip. That is a different issue. I don't know if Nash checked his account or the charges at checkout. I always do.

Frankly, I don't know why he was charged for a room -- 7 Stars get a free room. Nash will have to explain that room charge. Was it for the actual room or for charges to the room? If charges to the room, this could have been handled at check out by looking at the print out of room charges.
I check my reward credits. It is very simple to ask at check out what you are charged and how the charges are handled. It's not a mystery, nor do you have to be a detective.

[Rob.Singer]

If you guys only knew how waste-of-time silly all this appears to most readers here. You run all that money thru the machines just to feel special about carrying around a Seven Stars card, then it's gloves-off when a $10 dispute arises along with cries to "call your host!"

I know how these casino programs squeeze players, cheat players on purpose at times, and cause all sorts of headaches. But most of all, it's simple employee and/or computer programming incompetence. And that's where learning how to play the game the proper way instead of chasing "reward credits" & slot card status makes all the difference in the world. Nip it in the bud before you ever get to this point people! Again, you win, then you just let these irritating little things slide. They mean nothing, and instead of folks like Dan having non-stop stomach acid-production over such things, the smoothness of the overall operation will calm and soothe. "Squeeze" every little bit out of those machines up front, and you'll all sleep much better at night.

[redietz]

It doesn't really matter whether CET erroneously bills thousands of customers their RC's or whether CET has hired professional pickpockets to patrol their properties -- the results are the same. At some point, it's not about competence; it's about caring and not ripping people off. Obviously, there are hundreds of folks who have been caught by this kind of stuff. If CET actually cared, it wouldn't happen.

Do you actually believe CET management isn't aware of these strategies dressed as confusion/incompetence? Do you really believe a company drowning in debt and lunging for whatever income boosts they can grasp has catching these "errors" as a priority?

Dan? Alan?

[regnis]

Exactly!!!!!

Rob and Red hit it on the head. It is a combination of employee and system incompetence and an "I don't care" attitude of Caesars.

Let's see what happens once they come out of the inevitable bankruptcy.

Anyone want to buy the big "ferris wheel" cheap????

[Alan Mendelson]

I still believe that if you check your bill every night on the TV in your room, and if you check your bill at check-out, if there are errors they can be found and corrected. Big hotels with big systems for comps and gift cards and credit cards create plenty of opportunities for errors -- I think the customer must be aware of what's being charged, how the charges are paid for, and not leave it to "automatic checkouts."

I have never done an automatic checkout over the TV in my room. And I always check my room charges daily.

This doesn't excuse a hotel for making errors -- but it's better to catch the errors right away than to be surprised by them later.

You might recall the post I made where I was checking my bill prior to check out at Caesars and I found that my room service tips were much larger than what I had signed for. When I discovered the problem a host was called (not even my host) and they wiped out ALL of the tips because it wasn't worth the trouble for them to investigate the over-charging.

Yet there is a warning there -- someone boosted the dollar amount of the tips on my room service check and I caught it.

[Nash]

Alan,

It was not a charge for a room. I checked the bill at VIP registration. My bill was $81.31. I thought it was all being docked from the gift card.

The following happened after I reviewed our AMEX card and my TR statement online.

I was docked the $10.00 tip on my gift card and charged for it on our AMEX card.

I was docked the $55.09 charge at Toby Keith's on my gift card and my RC's.

I was docked the $16.22 charge at Starbucks on my gift card and my RC's.

Everything including the tip was charged to our room because Toby Keith's and Starbucks were having problems taking the gift card.

Total charged to gift card $81.31 used at checkout

Total charged to my RC's $71.31 taken after we checked out

Total charged to AMEX $10.00 taken after we checked out

[Alan Mendelson]

Nash thanks for posting. Immediately contact AMEX and dispute the $10 charge. Immediately call your host and let your host know you were double charged. Let us know what your host says.

[Dan Druff]

I disagree with Alan's advice about the Amex card.

Don't waste a chargeback on this.

Here is what will happen:

Amex will deem this unworthy of their time, and will automatically give you the $10 back.

So why is this bad?

Well, first off, CET will be keeping the $10, which they shouldn't. Amex will eat it.

But more importantly, it will count as a chargeback on your account. And if you end up making too many, Amex will start denying them more often or scrutinize them more. You don't want to become "the chargeback customer", so you should reserve them for situations where there really is no other option.

As you guys have seen, I am one of the toughest consumers out there, but I rarely resort to chargebacks. I just made my first chargeback in years last week when Air Canada agreed I was owed $120 but their customer service department was too swamped, and it would be 6-8 weeks for me to even get a response about it. I found that was unacceptable and charged it back, because there was no way I could resolve the matter, and no way I could speak to a human being about it.

But in this case, the hotel should be able to reverse that $10. Have your host do that, as well.

[Dan Druff]

I still believe that if you check your bill every night on the TV in your room, and if you check your bill at check-out, if there are errors they can be found and corrected. Big hotels with big systems for comps and gift cards and credit cards create plenty of opportunities for errors -- I think the customer must be aware of what's being charged, how the charges are paid for, and not leave it to "automatic checkouts."

I have never done an automatic checkout over the TV in my room. And I always check my room charges daily.

This doesn't excuse a hotel for making errors -- but it's better to catch the errors right away than to be surprised by them later.

You might recall the post I made where I was checking my bill prior to check out at Caesars and I found that my room service tips were much larger than what I had signed for. When I discovered the problem a host was called (not even my host) and they wiped out ALL of the tips because it wasn't worth the trouble for them to investigate the over-charging.

Yet there is a warning there -- someone boosted the dollar amount of the tips on my room service check and I caught it.

Alan, you are incorrect.

I have posted about this before, so I am surprised you are still taking this line.

Caesaar's has a big problem where your RCs just "disappear" for things, and there is no record of it on the hotel's side.

That is, it won't show up on your TV folio, won't show up on your paper folio at checkout, and even the front desk will be unable to see it unless they really dig deep in the system (and sometimes not even then).

As I said earlier, I got charged about $140 for internet last year. I noticed it because $140 worth of RCs abruptly vanished for no reason.

Nobody could figure it out. The front desk INSISTED it wasn't their doing, and found zero evidence that I was charged anything. They sent me to Total Rewards.

Total Rewards could see it, but couldn't see what it was for. "It says hotel charge," they told me. "They need to take it off. We can't, nor can we see why they charged you."

I went back to the front desk (and this was in the VIP room), and again they denied being able to see any charges.

Only after a long investigation by the VIP front desk manager did they find that I was being erroneously charged for the internet, and it hadn't been showing up on my folio.

He also confirmed to me that he discovered a problem with their system that had existed for at least weeks, and perhaps months.

This isn't just my bad luck. Several of my Seven Stars friends have also mysteriously lost RCs (usually from the internet, but often from other phantom charges, such as minibar purchases they never made, or other things), and it's always the same story -- nothing shows on their folio printed by the front desk.

You should DEFINITELY check your Total Rewards statement for as far back as you can, and see if you have any of these charges.

Arguably my worst one was when I got a second comp room through my host, who then left on vacation. I found my RCs vanishing at $129 per day. Turned out my "second comp room" was being paid for by RCs -- something I never authorized, and my host KNEW that wasn't what I had asked for. Then I got in a really frustrating argument with the host on duty, who insisted that rooms paid by RCs are still "comped", and therefore the host had kept her promise to me. After a long argument about this, the host on duty arrogantly said he would look into it, but still believed I was wrong and that taking my RCs is fine when I ask for "another comp room". He then found me an hour later and sheepishly admitted, "Umm... turned out it was miscoded. This shouldn't have happened. You were right, and I fixed it." No apology.

[Rob.Singer]

Dan is so totally confused about how, when and if to handle CET billing messes that a fair person would just mark this up to overall inexperience. However, his comments on how /what AMEX might or might not do, tells me just about everything he works is a challenge. Man alive.

[Nash]

We have no plans to dispute the $10.00 tip charge with AMEX. CET should just be able to refund the $10.00 with AMEX since they took it from the gift card too.

[Alan Mendelson]

We have no plans to dispute the $10.00 tip charge with AMEX. CET should just be able to refund the $10.00 with AMEX since they took it from the gift card too.

Did you speak to your host or someone at Caesars and is it resolved? Status?