Labor Day Trip Report: Caesars Palace

[Rob.Singer]

It's always all tied into the gambling. I understood that from all the divorced people I've trained over the years. And of course, when the games biggest commercial name has a confirmed home-wrecking caused by casino addiction, it's the odds on favorite for most gamblers.

Dan you forgot about the $50k wins too. Those must mean my children are fake.
Like I said, you need to find a way to win SOMETHING. It'll do wonders for your sour attitude against everything CET here, and your sour grapes over having to see pictures of all my big wins. I sure hope you don't take any of this out on that 3-yr. old.....

[Alan Mendelson]

I did hit quad aces playing 7/5 $1 Bonus, and my date hit quad 8s twice in less than ten hands playing 7/5 $1 Bonus. Not even one 4-to-the-royal hand to moan about. I was dealt a full house with three aces and I held the full house.

I meant to post the photo of the quad aces on the $1 7/5 Bonus Poker machine. You'll see I held only an ace, drawing three aces plus a kicker. By the way, I did check the double double bonus game on the same machine and the same quad aces and the kicker 4 DID NOT show on the Double Double Bonus screen.

We often wonder "what if I were playing a different game, would I have won more money?" But with these machines -- as with others I have checked at other casinos, the "same cards" do not carry over from one game to the next. HOWEVER they do carry over from one denomination to another. For example, when I hit a $20K royal at Caesars earlier this year, I checked and saw that the same royal appeared as a $10 Royal and as a $25 Royal. However, the "jackpot amount" did not show on the higher denominations -- the "jackpot" showed only on the denomination I was playing.

[Chimp]

Alan, what do you mean you checked the $10 royal and the $25 royal? I don't understand.

[Alan Mendelson]

The machine was multi denominational. After the hand oay and the machine was unlocked I changed the denominations to see that my $5 royal also appeared at $10 and $25.

[Dan Druff]

The machine was multi denominational. After the hand oay and the machine was unlocked I changed the denominations to see that my $5 royal also appeared at $10 and $25.

I don't understand what that means.

So the royal you already hit still remained on the screen when you switched denominations? What does that show?

[Dan Druff]

It's always all tied into the gambling. I understood that from all the divorced people I've trained over the years. And of course, when the games biggest commercial name has a confirmed home-wrecking caused by casino addiction, it's the odds on favorite for most gamblers.

Dan you forgot about the $50k wins too. Those must mean my children are fake.
Like I said, you need to find a way to win SOMETHING. It'll do wonders for your sour attitude against everything CET here, and your sour grapes over having to see pictures of all my big wins. I sure hope you don't take any of this out on that 3-yr. old.....

I don't think your marriage is fake, Rob. I'm sure you were married at one point and actually do have kids. Maybe you're still married.

But you brag about how happy your marriage is, and that part I doubt. I'm guessing it's more likely that your wife doesn't feel like going through a divorce and striking out on her own in her 60s, so she just puts up with your crap and chalks it up to the way life fell for her.

[Dan Druff]

Also Rob, if you are really Alan's friend, I don't understand why you publicly mock him about his divorce.

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't understand what that means.

So the royal you already hit still remained on the screen when you switched denominations? What does that show?

It shows that the same processor applied to all three denominations. So had I been playing $10 or $25 and had pushed the buttons at the same time my royal would have been $40000 or $100000.

[Alan Mendelson]

Just heard from Lost and Found at Caesars about returning the purse with its contents. There was a slight delay because they wanted to know who the check should be made payable to for the $681. I knew that cash was not insured using FedEx so I was curious what they would do about the cash. Well, Caesars is sending a check for $681 -- confirming the amount in the purse. They wanted to know whose name should go on the check? All of the other contents of the purse are also being sent back including her watch, lipsticks, etc.

I wonder if we would have had that kind of luck at another hotel?

[Dan Druff]

Just heard from Lost and Found at Caesars about returning the purse with its contents. There was a slight delay because they wanted to know who the check should be made payable to for the $681. I knew that cash was not insured using FedEx so I was curious what they would do about the cash. Well, Caesars is sending a check for $681 -- confirming the amount in the purse. They wanted to know whose name should go on the check? All of the other contents of the purse are also being sent back including her watch, lipsticks, etc.

I wonder if we would have had that kind of luck at another hotel?

Interesting.

Props to Caesars for doing all of this for no charge.

I left a few iPhone chargers at a hotel in Niagara Falls, and they referred me to a third-party UPS store, who wanted to gouge me to return the items (like $28). Keep in mind these were all very light and don't take up much room.

I told them to forget it and just throw the items away.

[Dan Druff]

It shows that the same processor applied to all three denominations. So had I been playing $10 or $25 and had pushed the buttons at the same time my royal would have been $40000 or $100000.

Yes, it would have been the same Royal.

However, it's always one processor in these machines. They would never put a second processor for separate games, as that's a waste of money.

[Rob.Singer]

I don't think your marriage is fake, Rob. I'm sure you were married at one point and actually do have kids. Maybe you're still married.

But you brag about how happy your marriage is, and that part I doubt. I'm guessing it's more likely that your wife doesn't feel like going through a divorce and striking out on her own in her 60s, so she just puts up with your crap and chalks it up to the way life fell for her.

Yes Dan, I am proud to brag about what a long and happy marriage Cindy & I have, along with our two wonderful children and four exhilarating grandkids. You can doubt it all you want, but we're the ones enjoying retirement as full-time RVers in a big Class A that was completely paid for by vp winnings before you ever heard of me. If you weren't so late to the game again, you'd have seen pictures of us with our rig. But I'm sure to your total dismay, both the marriage AND the $100k win--along with those pesky little $50kers that seem to have you stymied--are all true.

But you're the one we should all be concerned about. After that episode @ Caesars where you treated your wife disgracefully over a lousy bottle of Gatorade, there could be a bit more to it. Do you hit her? It's common knowledge that those who regularly lose gambling take it out somewhere, and that's usually on the home front. You've also got this raging hardon of hatred for the TR Program. I mean, you project a nasty disposition here when confronted with criticism and others winning big, as if it's always an "in your face" proposition. You need to wise up and listen to others, even if you dislike their presentation and/or their attitude. Life wasn't meant to be easy. You just need to step back and re-assess where it's going wrong.

My point to Alan has always been to get away from the gambling for some getaway time with the wife. If not that could cause trouble. Seems like it has. But for him divorce doesn't seem to be that big a deal since he's a veteran at it. Such a thing would be devastating for me....even the slightest mistrust between us or the inability to laugh and smile and do so many interesting things. You see Dan, I totally prepared for my gambling career and retirement BEFORE starting it. Learn from this. You go along and keep losing like you do or keep the gambling up without the future with family and finances being fully secured, you're asking for all kinds of trouble.

[Count Room]

Yes, it would have been the same Royal.

However, it's always one processor in these machines. They would never put a second processor for separate games, as that's a waste of money.

Dan: Now that's interesting, because a long while back Rob talked about being a "pattern detective" where he would take a multi-denomination, multi-game machine (such as IGT's Game Kings) and search the different games (ie. BP, TBP+, etc.) to see which game was running "hot" at low denomination. Then he would bump up the denomination to hit something big once he detected a hot game.

If all these IGT multi-game machines only have one processor it would mean the different games are just meaningless "shells" that provide visual symbols using the same processor, is that correct?

EDIT: I should note that the game AND the paytable had to be the same. 8/5 BP at $10 might be 7/5 BP at $1 and they would have different hands left behind by the previous player (different displays as mentioned in the royal example Alan gave)

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, out of curiosity: How does the same RNG processor work when it has a 52-card non wild game with the 53-card symbol Joker's Wild? And what about Keno and Blackjack games being on the same menu??

[Count Room]

I just realized that different games using 53 cards (such as Joker's Wild), and Blackjack/Keno games would each have their own separate software using different function calls on the same main RNG processor. This seems to make sense to me....

[Alan Mendelson]

However, it's always one processor in these machines. They would never put a second processor for separate games, as that's a waste of money.

On multi game machines I've never seen the same hand duplicated on different games. For example AAAA4 on Bonus would not show up on Double Double Bonus.

[Dan Druff]

Yes Dan, I am proud to brag about what a long and happy marriage Cindy & I have, along with our two wonderful children and four exhilarating grandkids. You can doubt it all you want, but we're the ones enjoying retirement as full-time RVers in a big Class A that was completely paid for by vp winnings before you ever heard of me. If you weren't so late to the game again, you'd have seen pictures of us with our rig. But I'm sure to your total dismay, both the marriage AND the $100k win--along with those pesky little $50kers that seem to have you stymied--are all true.

But you're the one we should all be concerned about. After that episode @ Caesars where you treated your wife disgracefully over a lousy bottle of Gatorade, there could be a bit more to it. Do you hit her? It's common knowledge that those who regularly lose gambling take it out somewhere, and that's usually on the home front. You've also got this raging hardon of hatred for the TR Program. I mean, you project a nasty disposition here when confronted with criticism and others winning big, as if it's always an "in your face" proposition. You need to wise up and listen to others, even if you dislike their presentation and/or their attitude. Life wasn't meant to be easy. You just need to step back and re-assess where it's going wrong.

My point to Alan has always been to get away from the gambling for some getaway time with the wife. If not that could cause trouble. Seems like it has. But for him divorce doesn't seem to be that big a deal since he's a veteran at it. Such a thing would be devastating for me....even the slightest mistrust between us or the inability to laugh and smile and do so many interesting things. You see Dan, I totally prepared for my gambling career and retirement BEFORE starting it. Learn from this. You go along and keep losing like you do or keep the gambling up without the future with family and finances being fully secured, you're asking for all kinds of trouble.

Come on, Rob. Accusing me of wife-beating now?

Anyone who has met me will tell you that I'm the opposite of a violent person.

I don't have any resentment toward winners. I hope everyone on this forum wins. My only harsh words go towards those who lie about winning and then use that phony winning to exert superiority over others.

[Count Room]

On multi game machines I've never seen the same hand duplicated on different games. For example AAAA4 on Bonus would not show up on Double Double Bonus.

Even so, it's definitely possible with one processor. Each paytable program is just a visual "shell" using different credit meter instructions when you win hands.

It would be a simple task to have all the games take their numbers from the same processor, and you can install & remove games from the menu by opening the game machine case.

[Alan Mendelson]

Even so, it's definitely possible with one processor. Each paytable program is just a visual "shell" using different credit meter instructions when you win hands.

It would be a simple task to have all the games take their numbers from the same processor, and you can install & remove games from the menu by opening the game machine case.

I am very curious about this -- how many RNGs and how many processors and how the machines operate. I had one conversation with the head of slots at one casino who told me ALL machines have ONE random number generator but there are different "processors" for each of the different games on that machine. While the word "processor" was used, frankly I don't know what a processor is or what it does.

What I can tell you is this: whenever I hit a hand like the quad aces in the photo above I ask myself "why weren't you playing at $5 per coin?"

[Count Room]

I am very curious about this -- how many RNGs and how many processors and how the machines operate. I had one conversation with the head of slots at one casino who told me ALL machines have ONE random number generator but there are different "processors" for each of the different games on that machine. While the word "processor" was used, frankly I don't know what a processor is or what it does.

What I can tell you is this: whenever I hit a hand like the quad aces in the photo above I ask myself "why weren't you playing at $5 per coin?"

Alan: First of all, let me very strongly and forcefully emphasize that I dabble in computer programming on a hobbyist level, OK? I may be wrong in what I am about to say, but I strongly suspect Dan is right that there is only one processor per machine.

In fact, that brings a smile to my face because it would be idiocy to have more than one processor per machine. The "processor" is simply the CPU unit in the machine. In fact, I'd venture to say the CPU unit in our home computers may be more powerful than the VP machines in some cases!

The CPU unit has a MIPS (Millions of instructions per second), related to GHz speed. When there is a generic software program creating random numbers that same generic code can be used by the different games on the menu.

For instance...Bonus Poker makes 5 initial calls for random numbers from the generic software coded RNG, the RNG spits out the numbers, and the Bonus Poker program "shell" converts the five numbers requested into card symbols. One "shell" (Bonus Poker) has 52 symbols, while something like "Joker's Wild" has 53 symbols. A Keno game would make a function call from the generic RNG instructions for 20 numbers instead of just 5 for video poker, for example.

Just know that whenever you hit the DEAL/DRAW button the outer "shell" (your Aces & Faces game) is simply making a function call from a generic set of RNG software instructions that is used by all games on the menu at that very moment. The numbers from the generic RNG change constantly because one of the arguments of the RNG function is probably time itself (down to the nanosecond or however fast the processor will allow).

[Dan Druff]

I have a Master's Degree in Computer Science.

I do not have any information on how they have constructed the VP machines, but I would be very surprised if they had more than one processor.

Count Room laid out the reasons for this pretty well.

To put it in terms the layman can understand, having more than one processor in a VP machine would be like having a different processor in your laptop for each task -- one for web browsing, one for playing music and video, one for word processing, etc. It would be prohibitively expensive to do this, and in fact pointless.

One processor (especially those manufactured in modern times) can handle a whole lot at once. There is no need for separate processors for separate games on a VP machine, especially because only one can be played at a time!

As video poker existed as far back as the 1970s, obviously it doesn't require a whole lot of computer processing power to run, anyway.

Alan, when you switch denominations, and you see the same cards in some machines and not others, it's just the way the machines were programmed to behave. In all cases, the denomination affects nothing, and if you hit the exact same buttons at the exact same moment on a higher denomination, you would likely get the same cards (unless the denomination is also factored into the random number generation which is unlikely).