New rules. Or... A reminder about the current rules.

[Rob.Singer]

As a craps player for 40 years, I have to side with Alan on this one.

One time many years ago (i was 23) I was at the Flamingo playing craps and a young "professional lady" in the lounge across from the craps table caught my eye. Having never partaken of professional companionship it was a long debate in my mind but I finally decided to jump in. Since I was with other lawyers and didn't want them to know, the arrangement we made was for me to go back to the craps table and her to walk by in 15 minutes and tap me on the back and I would follow her to the elevator.

The craps game got hot--she came and tapped me on the back--and I said get the eff out of here. A hot craps game always wins out over sex. So cut Alan a little slack.

Regnis, it goes a bit further than just that. I wasn't aware of this incident until I just read it, and it should serve as a life's lesson for everyone. Doing what you say you will do builds an incredible amount of trust, and says very loudly that you respect the other party. It's also key in the credibility dept. When someone uses ANY excuse to blow someone off without having the wherewithal or courtesy to inform the other party beforehand barring a true emergency, it speaks volumes, and it can destroy trust in an instant. In this particular case where an event such as gambling came first with blatant disrespect for a prior commitment, it says more than one needs or cares to know. The fact that a "table was hot" doesn't even reach the pathetic stage.

[Alan Mendelson]

How about this Rob: I didn't notice the time. But would a better excuse have been I just had a flat tire?
Sorry I didn't make the meet-up. I didn't realize that would keep people off the forum for a year.

[regnis]

Rob clearly is not a craps player. A good roll comes as often as the cubs win the world series.

And isn't there some kind of unwritten Vegas rule relating to time and meeting up with others.

[Rob.Singer]

It's about simple respect and how you would like to be treated. No gambling event would or should ever come before disrespecting others. A courteous phone call would have sufficed, and if that wasn't an option then there is no excuse at all. None Alan. As I said, it speaks volumes.

[Vegas Vic]

It's about simple respect and how you would like to be treated.

Really, RS? The irony of you preaching to anyone about "respect".

[Vpnewbie]

Yeah. What Rob said. It just shows someones character. You learn and move on. Some people don't get it. But, that's okay.

I'm old school. If you say you're going to do something. You do it. If you say your going to be somewhere, you better be there. My parents would never tell someone I wasn't home just because I didn't want to talk to them on the phone either. I'm dating myself but, that's when phones hung on the kitchen wall.

These are valuable learning tools that people taught their kids in the old days. What happened to these old kodgers. I guess life and selfishness.

Now go ahead and do what you do best. Ridicule me for making a statement because it doesn't fit into your ideals of what character definition is!!

[Alan Mendelson]

Do you realize how rude it is to color up during a shooter's hand? There is also craps ettiquette.

Rob when do I get that dinner you owe me? Isn't there some rule about paying your bets?

[dannyj]

Not taking sides here. But, as a long time craps player, I have never seen anyone color up DURING a hot roll.

[Count Room]

Not taking sides here. But, as a long time craps player, I have never seen anyone color up DURING a hot roll.

How many points need to be rolled without a 7-out before a shooter's roll is considered "hot"?

Where is the demarcation line drawn before it becomes rude to color up?

[Alan Mendelson]

You should never color up unless the last shooter has sevened out and the dealers are clearing chips off the table. If any shooter has the dice you wait.

A hot roll is ANY roll without a seven out. But most players would call a hand "hot" after 20 throws because that's rare.

[Count Room]

You should never color up unless the last shooter has sevened out and the dealers are clearing chips off the table. If any shooter has the dice you wait.

A hot roll is ANY roll without a seven out. But most players would call a hand "hot" after 20 throws because that's rare.

About 15 years ago I sauntered up to a craps table at the Golden Nugget (downtown Vegas) very late at night and plunked down $40 playing the pass line with odds and placing points. I kept pressing my bets because of my hot luck with making points. Occasionally I would seven out, but would repeat the process all over again and still remain hot even during the next series of dice shoots. I walked out with about $1,800 or so.

I was alone at the table. If the stickman had passed the dice to another shooter (which was impossible at the time), it would have interfered with my generally hot luck since I was rolling sevens at a lower frequency than normal.

Maybe it's rude for the stickman to change to the next shooter after a hot roller finally sevens out? Just because the shooter doesn't roll a flawless series without sevens doesn't mean he couldn't be very lucrative to bet with at the time. From what I can tell, all that's really needed is a lower frequency of 7's than normal.

[Alan Mendelson]

From what I can tell, all that's really needed is a lower frequency of 7's than normal.

This is only partially correct. What you really want is for the 7s to show up at the "right time." You want 7s to show up on the come-out roll. If you could throw a dozen sevens in a row on the "come out" you could make a fortune. What you don't want is for 7s to show up after a "point" is established.

[Alan Mendelson]

Maybe it's rude for the stickman to change to the next shooter after a hot roller finally sevens out?

The procedure in the game is for the stickman to offer the dice to the next player, going clockwise, after the previous shooter sevens out. The next clockwise player is not obligated to accept the dice to shoot next. I have been at tables where all the players "passed" on accepting the dice so that the "same shooter" could roll again.

[Count Room]

This is only partially correct. What you really want is for the 7s to show up at the "right time." You want 7s to show up on the come-out roll. If you could throw a dozen sevens in a row on the "come out" you could make a fortune. What you don't want is for 7s to show up after a "point" is established.

Sure, Alan, I understand all that. I have a good grasp of the rules in craps, but if someone has a really hot roll making all kinds of points before sevening out wouldn't it be rude or jarring to have the stickman pass the dice to the next shooter?

I have to wonder if perfect craps etiquette would be having all the others present at the table agree to simply pass the dice right back to the shooter that finally sevens out after shooting 15+ points, just to see if he can do it again....

[Alan Mendelson]

I have to wonder if perfect craps etiquette would be having all the others present at the table agree to simply pass the dice right back to the shooter that finally sevens out after shooting 15+ points, just to see if he can do it again....

15+ points or 15+ numbers? There is a difference.

The procedural rules for craps is for the dice to move clockwise, just as the dealers button in poker moves clockwise. As I mentioned above it's up to the next player in line to decide if they want the dice or if they choose to pass.

What makes you think a shooter who just made 15+ points would even want the dice back? If I made 15 points at a $25 table betting full 3x, 4x, 5x odds, I would have made $2,625 not counting what I would have also made hitting "numbers" in between the points. If I hit just ONE number between points it would be an additional profit of $490 for a total profit of $3,115 less my initial outlay which (depending on the point) would have been as little as $235.

That would have been a net profit of $2,880 and I would have been running to the cage with those chips.

And if a Fire Bet were involved, it is likely that with 15 points made, six might be different points meaning a $10 fire bet would return an additional $10,000. Now, would you expect me to shoot again?

I CREATED A NEW THREAD FOR THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT HOT ROLLS AND CRAPS ETTIQUETTE.

[Dan Druff]

I think there were two dueling issues at play here:

1) It would be a breach in etiquette to color up from the craps table during a hot roll

2) It would be a breach in etiquette to agree to meet someone and then not show up

The problem is that both #1 and #2 were happening here, and it was impossible to avoid both. So Alan had to choose, and he chose not to breach #1's etiquette.

I think the moral of the story is NOT to start playing craps if you agreed to be somewhere soon.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, I agree with your summary above -- as well as your moral of the story.

But I had no guarantee that the others would be there waiting for me. I hate to say it, but many times I've had "meet ups" scheduled in Vegas and for one reason or another someone is a no show.

I think regnis summed it up nicely this way:

And isn't there some kind of unwritten Vegas rule relating to time and meeting up with others.

[Dan Druff]

Maybe it's best to just meet people at Nobu. At least you have a good meal even if people no-show.

BTW I love the manager at Nobu. Very gracious and softspoken guy. They do a great job at service at that place.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan... we met for the first time at Nobu. And by luck your reservation was set for about 30 minutes after we finished dinner so we hung out in the bar. Look at why our meet up was successful:

1. We had each other's cell phone numbers and could phone and text each other.
2. We had a certain time to meet up: you had a reservation, and we were finishing dinner in the same location.

But was it our first time meeting up in Vegas? No. We were both at Caesars several times in the past but failed to meet up for various reasons -- and that's life in the big city.

[Dante]

BTW I love the manager at Nobu. Very gracious and softspoken guy. They do a great job at service at that place.

translation- I found a manager whom I can manipulate and screw over. He's soft as tissue so I run all over him. Asking for ridiculous requests and he's too nice to say no. I'll continue to abuse him like I have all others until he cuts me off.