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Thread: Rethinking casino loyalty for 2015?

  1. #1
    I admit that I have been very loyal with my play to Caesars Total Rewards casinos. The reason was simple: by concentrating my play with Total Rewards casinos I maximize the benefits from Total Rewards.

    I have not outside of a Total Rewards casino except for insignificant, minimal play at Red Rock and Gold Strike in Vegas.

    But now I find myself and others rethinking our commitment to Total Rewards because of various factors:

    1. The threat of bankruptcy and possible impact on Total Rewards benefits
    2. The recent and continuous downgrade of benefits
    3. Opportunity for better offers from other companies

    I would like to add that I have lost much of my "brand loyalty" to Rincon -- a Total Rewards casino -- because of diminishing offers. Caesars has also cut my offers.

    Yes, my play isn't as "strong" as it was in year's past, but some of the offers are so low they don't make travel to a casino worthwhile.

    Complicating the cut in offers is sloppy "bookkeeping" which at Rincon has meant offers were not posted to my account, and at Caesars they had me recorded for trips I never made which cut my "theoretical" and value as a player.

    I've spoken to other Total Rewards players who say they intend to play more at other casinos such as those under the MGM brand to "test the waters."

  2. #2
    Alan: You may or may not remember my suggesting it, but I mentioned a long while back to try spreading out your play to various casino chains. Give them some initial high limit play and watch the offers roll into your mailbox. I agree with Rob Singer on this one.

    It will be like Christmas all over again with the vibrantly colorful mailers you receive.

    I know this forum is not hugely important to you, but having experiences at a broader range of casinos might also encourage more forum newcomers to speak up.

    EDIT: Aside from what I wrote above, I have to forlornly say you and Dan missed out on the glory days of Harrah's VP from the mid-2000's. They used to have 100.7% games (up to $5!) and you could earn up to a Diamond card at the time, as well. Seven Stars didn't come out until 2007-2008 or so, and the very best game by then was 99.95% Pick 'em (ie. game selection already deteriorating by then).
    Last edited by Count Room; 12-01-2014 at 10:09 PM.

  3. #3
    In my playing days, I used both Caesars and MGM. MGM was a much better program in Las Vegas. However, once casinos began opening all over the country, there were not any MGM options for me in the Chicago area, whereas we had 3 Caesars properties locally. In order to accumulate the necessary "reward points" throughout the year, I had to switch over to Caesars. For awhile I still was able to get full RFB etc. through a host at MGM, but that phased out over the next few years.

    Alan--you do quite a bit of play at Rincon. Do you have an MGM option outside of Vegas. If not, you might have trouble achieving Seven Stars or its MGM equivalent--and the benefits and offers that come with that play--so keep that in mind. Caesars knows that--- this is how they "force" loyalty.

  4. #4
    By the way, regarding the Bankruptcy and the Total Rewards Program. I spoke with the Bankruptcy attorney in my firm and he indicated that it is entirely up to Caesars and then any creditors committee as to whether to maintain rewards or wipe them out. Even if one were to argue that there was some contractual arrangement (here is how you earn rewards--you play to earn the rewards-they can't take them away) that doesn't matter in a Chapter 11 and they can choose not to maintain the existing rewards and in fact wipe them out.

    Caesars can, of course, argue that this is an important part of their business and goodwill that cannot be wiped out. But it is pretty much up to caesars and the creditors.

  5. #5
    Alan, I think you are absolutely right. I hear more folks talking about dropping. or at least cutting way down, their loyalty to CET. My wife and I have not been to another company's casino (except on cruise and to the Bahamas) in years. But this may change. They think that they are cutting costs, but in reality they may just be cutting their own throats as they lose loyal Diamond and Seven Star members.

  6. #6
    I gave Aria a try earlier this year and was not happy with the program.

    You might want to give Cosmo a try.

    They have great restaurants and beautiful rooms.

    I gave them a little play this year and they let you keep your comp/freeplay points and get back end comps.

    My host just told me I don't have to be staying there to use my free play offer ($850) and this weekend they gave me 2 tickets to Amy Schumer.

    They also invited me to the NYE Lady Gaga & Tony Bennett event.

    This is my total play for the year at Cosmo:

    Coin in - 155,050
    Theo - 9,064
    Loss - 234

    I just noticed that I was playing 9/6 DDB last week from a picture. Thought it was only 9/5 like most at CET.

    I will post a few pictures when I get a chance to download from my phone.

  7. #7
    The problem with switching to M Life (MGM, Mandalay Bay, NYNY, Mirage, etc) is that they are only located in Las Vegas. You can't get a higher level with local play in California. We usually get only free room on a weekend trip to Las Vegas, no other comps. The comps are hidden and only determined at the end of a trip, you have to charge them to your room first.

    At least with TR, I know where I stand with rooms and comps with reward points.

    I'm finding that my daughter's Platinum offers are equivalent to my Diamond offers, so there is really no reason to go after the Diamond or Aspirations really hard at the end of the year. Platinum is easy to reach, and if I get Diamond, so be it. I won't be making as many trips to San Diego as before, as its a 2 hour drive each way from Pasadena. Las Vegas is only 3-1/2 hours.

  8. #8
    You are exactly right. That's what makes it hard. But, like you say, if comps are essentially the same for Platinum and Diamond players we might as well cut down on our CET trips and keep an eye open for other's good offers.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Count Room View Post
    Alan: You may or may not remember my suggesting it, but I mentioned a long while back to try spreading out your play to various casino chains. Give them some initial high limit play and watch the offers roll into your mailbox. I agree with Rob Singer on this one.

    It will be like Christmas all over again with the vibrantly colorful mailers you receive.

    I know this forum is not hugely important to you, but having experiences at a broader range of casinos might also encourage more forum newcomers to speak up.

    EDIT: Aside from what I wrote above, I have to forlornly say you and Dan missed out on the glory days of Harrah's VP from the mid-2000's. They used to have 100.7% games (up to $5!) and you could earn up to a Diamond card at the time, as well. Seven Stars didn't come out until 2007-2008 or so, and the very best game by then was 99.95% Pick 'em (ie. game selection already deteriorating by then).
    In 2007, Richard Brodie was banned from all CET properties for simply playing perfect strategy at their best paying VP games. This meant he couldn't play the WSOP. They eventually rescinded the ban after he made a big deal about it in the media.

    Were all +EV games gone by then?
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    In 2007, Richard Brodie was banned from all CET properties for simply playing perfect strategy at their best paying VP games. This meant he couldn't play the WSOP. They eventually rescinded the ban after he made a big deal about it in the media.

    Were all +EV games gone by then?
    I remember reading about Richard Brodie; he was a Microsoft bigwig who apparently played 3-coin $100 deuces wild machines. My recollection may not be totally accurate here, but it was out of the realm of most ordinary gamblers at the time. Harrah's had a lot of casinos spread throughout the country. Some had +EV VP and others didn't. I was speaking from the standpoint of an ordinary gambler outside of Vegas.

    Sometime around 2005-2006 is when things dried up on that front at Harrah's. Other casino chains still had +EV games, though.

    That 99.95% PKM game in Canada you mentioned on your Detroit trip sounds like a great way to get Seven Stars now. Full-pay Pick 'Em has a low variance (15 var.) compared to even 9/6 Jacks or Better (19 var.), and I think the game is more fun to play.
    Last edited by Count Room; 12-02-2014 at 03:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Regnis thanks for checking on bankrruptcy. Yes that's how I understand it. We really have to wait for two things:

    1. A possible bankrupty and changes forced on players

    2. No bankruptcy but changes Caesars elects to make on its own

    I really don't like the MGM properties as much as Caesars. I played MGM Grand, NYNY and Bellagio a lot until I ran into trouble at their craps pits. But in all honesty none of the MGM props comes close to Caesars Palace.

    I am more likely going to consider playing at WYNN because I find that casino very attractive with good video poker. I've never stayed there. I don't know how good the Wynn players club program is.

  12. #12
    There are two huge perks of Total Rewards that blow away all other programs -- at least at the moment:

    1) Free rooms at any property (up to 4-5 nights straight), given 48 hours or more notice. This is unique because it is NOT based upon play, and you could potentially stay in hundreds of free hotel rooms without spending a dime in play, once you've earned Seven Stars.

    2) The large network of Total Rewards properties across the US, giving you the opportunity to travel to many destinations and have both free hotel rooms and a place to spend your RCs.

    I have personally built road trips around CET properties around the country.

    In 2012 I went to Atlantic City and then drove to New York and the New England area.

    In 2013 I went to New Orleans and Mississippi (staying in two different CET properties), and took my Seven Stars cruise out of New Orleans.

    In 2014 I went to Windsor (Canada, but near Detroit), and did a little road trip from Detroit to Niagara Falls to Toronto.

    No other program has this many hotels in this many locations.

    With that said, CET's laughable incompetence with managing both the TR program and their properties (mentioned countless times out here by many different posters), combined with the head-scratching diminishing returns for super-active players, is aggravating people to the point of wanting to leave.

    I am not a typical Seven Stars member, but we have guys on this site like Alan and Aaron, who are well-informed on TR benefits, yet also active players and not comp whores. The fact that both of them are considering sharply decreasing their play at CET properties is very telling. CET is driving away a lot of their best customers through incompetence, poor decision making, bureaucracy, and poorly placed priorities, and they don't even realize it.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  13. #13
    We did the same thing a couple of years ago, going to Harrah's in Indiana, Illinois, and North Carolina. That made the trip much more fun. We shall see about the future.

  14. #14
    I'm not sure if changing you players club based on your benifits is going to bring you much in 2015. Comps at Mlife have been going down as well. Resort fees are going up, room rates (on average) seem to be going up, the rewards you can earn playing the MyVegas game on Facebook are becoming less and less attractive, prices for food and beverage at the various pools seem to go up, you have to gamble more than a couple of years ago to earn the same tier status (which you now only keep for a year), etc. In short: Vegas economy is picking up which means the customer is getting less and less. They don't have to work as hard as they did 4 years ago to get customers in their properties. End result: the customer gets the short end of the stick.

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