Use cash before free play?

[Aaron]

I hold my free play and uses it all in one trip. When you cash RC's for free-play it counts against that trip as comps.

If I hold it and use it on a later trip I can maximize my theo and receive more discretionary comps.

It will be public info when the BK is filed and you will have a few days to use any questionable comps that you are worried about.

I don't think any Trustee, Bk Judge or Receiver would change the comp system. They are there to preserve the value of assets and the gamblers are the corporations most valuable assets.

Any changes to us will likely be after the BK is resolved.

[Dan Druff]

Aaron, I didn't think about the theo/discretionary comps thing. That's actually a valid reason to hold RCs.

But it doesn't sound like Alan's friend is doing it for that reason.

[FABismonte]

If you used a credit card do a charge back. All credit cards allow it in the case of bankruptcy.

Thanks for the suggestion Aaron, but unfortunately, my wife did not use a credit card. Thankfully the total amount was a few hundred so it won't change our lifestyle.

FAB

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, why shouldn't I have trouble? I don't have a host who wants to help me get it, for that very reason -- because I'm overcomped!

Let's just say that I have to make my own things happen at Caesar's.

I am just curious how you personally get this done. Does your host guarantee you a room in Augustus with a strip view and a high floor?

This is why I say you are now undercomped.

Yes I have a host who makes my reservations.

[Alan Mendelson]

There may not be any notice or warning of a BK or changes to Total Rewards at Caesars.

About 6-8 years ago there was no warning when the cashback program ended.

I've told the story about the LA poker casino that filed for BK without warning. A manager came out on the casino floor and announced all chips were worthless and player accounts were wiped out.

One other thing to consider: if you hit big with the free play you never have to touch your own money. Remember the trip I hit two royals with free play and never opened my own wallet?

[Dan Druff]

This is why I say you are now undercomped.

Yes I have a host who makes my reservations.

That's not what undercomped means.

You are actually undercomped, as you are not redeeming as many comps as you could.

I am overcomped. I suck up way too many comps for what my play justifies.

Is my comp power low for a 7 Star? Of course it is. But my theo is low so that makes sense.

The bottom line is that I can still get the rooms I want (usually) with a bit of work and diligence.

[Alan Mendelson]

The bottom line is that I can still get the rooms I want (usually) with a bit of work and diligence.

But you really can't, can you? Are you getting that high floor in the Augustus Tower with the Bellagio strip view for New Years?

You and I have different views on what are comps. Getting "a room" because you are 7 Stars is not a "comp." It is a basic that comes with the 7 Stars program. Comps are the offers you are not getting: invitations to events, shopping, free play, a host who will handle things for you. They are also those "discretionary comps" that you seem to value so much. What discretionary comps are you getting?

I know 7 Stars players who are overcomped because for some reason they get the maximum offers for not much more play than I have or less play and they have FEWER tier points than I have. For example, (and I've mentioned this to my host), there are craps players who play about the same bets as I make who get $2,500 per offer while I am now cut to $550 per offer. Before the most recent cut I was getting $900 or $1,000 per offer. I asked my host why they get $2,500 per offer with essentially the same play or while they have fewer tier points than I have?

I never received an explanation I could accept. The only thing that seemed plausible was that they made fewer trips and played longer per trip that they made. In other words, I would make ten trips a year staying two nights, but they would make 8 trips a year staying three nights. So while we made the same dollar-value bets Caesars considered them more valuable per-trip.

By the way, it's good to have a relationship with a host. Did I tell you about the time I was ill and my host extended my stay an additional day and sent Gatorade, tea and food to my room at no charge?

[Dan Druff]

I'm not understanding where you're going with this.

Is it true that I no longer get much freeplay, shows, or food comps? Yes.

Is it true that I have essentially been reduced to the core 7 Stars benefits? Yes.

But that's fine. I had regular food/freeplay comps for awhile, but those died out because my theoretical losses are very low, and my redemption of benefits is very high. I totally understand why I don't get these things anymore, and in fact expected that to happen sooner or later. I don't regret my pattern of play, because my objective was to earn Seven Stars and get the guaranteed benefits it offers. Note that I haven't put a single penny of my own money into CET machines the entire year of 2014.

What do you suggest I do (or should have done)? Played enough to keep up these benefits? I would have likely lost a lot of money in doing so.

I won't know if I am getting the high floor Augustus strip view room on New Year's until I can call there the day before and block the room. I will likely be able to manage it, though.

I didn't hear about your story about being ill and getting the food/tea/Gatorade at no charge, but again, you DID pay for that stuff, just not directly on that particular day. You paid for it with your regular play of negative expectation games.

The bottom line is that I can make good use of the 7 Stars basic benefits to where they are worth a good deal to me, which is why I earn 7 Stars in the first place. If I don't get anything on top of that, it's no big deal.

I like to trash CET a lot out here, but I am not criticizing them at all for killing my freeplay and other benefits. If I were in charge of CET, I would kill those benefits of players like me, as well.

[Alan Mendelson]

My point Dan is that you can't call yourself "overcomped" anymore. Those reading the forum should not get the idea that you can milk the comps forever. You also run the risk of losing not only the 7Stars rank you covet but also Diamond if indeed you played zero dollars in 2014.

I think for most consumers moderate play throughout the year is a better option than pounding the machines in short order to maintain 7stars or even Diamond. Most of us have an entertainment budget that is spread over a year. To maintain 7stars you will have to pump in $500000 coin in short order.

I think that's a bigger mistake than saving Reward Credits for free play.

Regarding the offer from my host when I was ill: there are a lot of extras I get that I don't discuss publicly.

[Dan Druff]

My point Dan is that you can't call yourself "overcomped" anymore. Those reading the forum should not get the idea that you can milk the comps forever. You also run the risk of losing not only the 7Stars rank you covet but also Diamond if indeed you played zero dollars in 2014.

I think for most consumers moderate play throughout the year is a better option than pounding the machines in short order to maintain 7stars or even Diamond. Most of us have an entertainment budget that is spread over a year. To maintain 7stars you will have to pump in $500000 coin in short order.

I think that's a bigger mistake than saving Reward Credits for free play.

Regarding the offer from my host when I was ill: there are a lot of extras I get that I don't discuss publicly.

What risk am I running of losing 7 Stars if I renew it by 3/31/15?

I suppose they could kick me out of the program, but that's not likely, as I haven't done anything bad or against their rules.

You are probably correct that the optimal play regarding a steady stream of comps involves moderate play spread throughout the year, with very few no-play trips.

However, that isn't practical for me, for various reasons I won't get into.

I disagree that pumping in the $500k coin-in in a short period of time is something bad. It's the same thing as spreading it over a year. I am not on a tight budget, so it doesn't matter to me whether I pump in the entire $500k in a short time or if it's spread out. There are only two things that matter -- my actual win/loss, and my expected win/loss. Neither of those improve if I spread out my play.

I don't have any budgets. Keep in mind that I am a very frugal person and am obsessed with "value" with nearly every dollar I spend. That is, I don't like cheap crap, and I'm willing to pay for quality, but I always seek to get the best deal and the biggest bang for my buck, while still enjoying the lifestyle I want. At the same time, I am financially comfortable enough not to have to deal with "entertainment budgets" or any other kind of budget for that matter. I'm not criticizing you for having a budget, but rather stating that I don't operate that way, and my high degree of financial discipline makes budgeting unnecessary.

Simply put, spending $6000 in December is the same to me as spending $500 every month from January-December. Many people would prefer to spend the $500 each month because they "feel" it less, but I don't care which order the money is spent if it breaks out the same.

I can indeed call myself "overcomped" because that's what I am, and that's what CET considers me. No matter which way you slice it, I am using more CET resources than my play has earned -- or will earn. These may be resources you personally don't value or enjoy, but to me they are important.

I don't try to give anyone the impression that you can milk things forever. You can't. Things constantly change. I have been very open about the fact that my food/show/freeplay comps have fallen to almost zero in Vegas. I still get some at the Rincon, but not enough to make it worth going there (at least Vegas is an interesting destination, whereas Rincon isn't).

I'm sure your host has done some nice things for you. By your own admission, you racked up 1 million tiers in 2013, and a fair number in other years. Even though you dialed it down somewhat in 2014, you still played a good amount while using few CET resources. You're the type of customer CET wants, except perhaps aside from the fact that you mainly stick to the best paytables and know perfect strategy.

So of course you are getting some nice things done for you. You've earned it!

I haven't earned it, and I never will. That's fine. A million tier credits at Aces and Faces is a theoretical loss of almost $25k, and that's if you do the bonus tier credit earning perfectly, which I know you weren't always doing. If you run badly with hitting your share of royals, that can easily turn into MUCH worse loss. I know you had better than average luck and probably didn't lose that much, but there's no way I am risking that type of money in -EV games just so I can get better comps and better treatment.

[timspeed]

The absolute cheapest/easiest way to get 7Stars for 2015, would be to go 10 trips in a year, split between Vegas/Rincon/Reno-Tahoe (Three separate markets)
All three of these markets have 8/5 Bonus Poker, which earn 1TC per $10 (it's at Bally's, in Vegas, for Dollars)
Take 10 trips, in where you either earn 2500TC per day x2 (two consecutive days) or 5000TC in one day.
For me, what I think I'm going to do, is wait until March to start earning TC, to see what effects the bankruptcy is going to have on TR (if any).
Then take alternating trips to earn 7Star (I realize that playing strictly "good" video poker will make my ADT look like shit), but as Dan Druff said, the 7Star perks are worth more than having a high ADT.

[Alan Mendelson]

what I think I'm going to do, is wait until March to start earning TC, to see what effects the bankruptcy is going to have on TR (if any).

Under the current circumstances, I think that is a very good idea. Why spend money on a program that you won't want to be part of starting in April?

[Dan Druff]

The absolute cheapest/easiest way to get 7Stars for 2015, would be to go 10 trips in a year, split between Vegas/Rincon/Reno-Tahoe (Three separate markets)
All three of these markets have 8/5 Bonus Poker, which earn 1TC per $10 (it's at Bally's, in Vegas, for Dollars)
Take 10 trips, in where you either earn 2500TC per day x2 (two consecutive days) or 5000TC in one day.
For me, what I think I'm going to do, is wait until March to start earning TC, to see what effects the bankruptcy is going to have on TR (if any).
Then take alternating trips to earn 7Star (I realize that playing strictly "good" video poker will make my ADT look like shit), but as Dan Druff said, the 7Star perks are worth more than having a high ADT.

Actually 8-5 bonus is a much worse game than 9-6 JoB.

Your expected loss at 8-5 bonus is 80.4% greater than 9-6 JoB!

The variance is higher, too, as 8-5 bonus requires hitting your proper share of big paying quads.

It is true that there isn't really a good option in the Vegas market, especially if you want to play $5/credit. The good games all give you 1 tier per $50 instead of $10, which is terrible.

The best-return, lowest-variance game is 1-play JoB, which can be found at the $5 denomination at Harrah's Reno. I believe that's the only CET property with this game in the west. I know that Harrah's New Orleans also has the game, as do a few others around the country.

There are some 3-play 99.54% JoB games in Lake Tahoe, which are the same odds as 1-play but more variance. I suppose running those at $1 or $2 is also a decent option.

You are correct that the easiest way is to simply do 10 days of 5,000 tier credit play, and you will earn Seven Stars.

This could actually be accomplished with two trips which last less than 48 hours, and then a third trip lasting less than 72 hours.

This is because the "play day' usually ends at 4-6am, not midnight. So you can show up at night, run your 5,000 tiers, get your 10k bonus tiers, then do the same the next day, and then do the same the next morning and go home. So you're there less than 48 hours, and you will have earned 45,000 tier credits for just $150,000 coin-in!

That's what I plan to do. Not sure where I'll do it yet, as Reno/Tahoe is a bit far from me. I'll probably just do it in Tahoe and combine it with a ski trip or something.