Use cash before free play?

[Alan Mendelson]

Aaron another difference between you and me is that I play either 7/5 or 8/5 Bonus poker at Caesars, while you play Double Double Bonus and slots. I never play slots. Your theo combined with your bigger bets make it easier for your host to give you more comps.

I should also add that while on a "good trip" I might put on 5,000 tier points that is the total over several days of play.

When I play craps I am rated as an "advanced player." Being an "advanced player" does not mean I have any great ability, but it is a code word for someone who plays the bets with the lowest house edge and therefore gets the lowest rating for comps and tier points. While my "average bet" at craps might be $235, because I am an "advanced player" making the low house edge bets my comps and tier points from craps are low as compared to a player who makes hardways bets, hop bets and horn bets which have a very high house edge.

By the way, on my last three trips to Vegas, I don't think my tier points earned ever exceeded about 3,000 points.

[timspeed]

Tim - $1,000 theo would be 50,000 coin in on 98% VP or 5,000 tp. With 1,000 tier points earned at 98% VP your theo would only be $200.

I understand that...but if I found a vP machine that gave 4% theo, and put in $25k, I'd have $1000 theo...
I would imagine with a room at ballys, I could get one meal back-end comped aye?

[timspeed]

By the way, on my last three trips to Vegas, I don't think my tier points earned ever exceeded about 3,000 points.

Alan..if that's the case..then how the HELL did you get to 7Stars?!? Did you literally go multiple times per month???
Even if you went EVERY WEEK and played 1000TC (To earn 2000TC per WEEK) you'd still not get to 7Star..
Again, once a MONTH, and played 2500TC (7500TC), STILL not gonna do it (90k TC)...

[Dan Druff]

One can earn Seven Stars from just 10 days of play of 5,000 tier credits each, because you earn 10,000 bonus tiers every time you earn 5,000 in a day.

Anyway, Alan, I think Aaron is right. I believe you are an undercomped player (meaning that you could be receiving more comps based upon your play). You don't take free hotel rooms often (only when you're in Vegas), and you never seem to ask for discretionary comps. Despite that, you play on nearly every trip. You might not have the theo that Aaron does, but "spending" your $272 RCs doesn't seem like much of a risk at this point, because you will likely get a return on it. You can also use the trick of booking a hotel through the Starwood partnership, using RCs, and then canceling it when the trip is over to get your RCs back.

While I don't think you would get huge discretionary comps, I think you would earn some.

In fact, why not just call your host and ask if your typical level of play would qualify you for discretionary comps once your RCs are gone?

[Alan Mendelson]

My current battle is why my $900 free play and gift offers during the fourth quarter were cut to $550 in the first quarter of 2015. And why they were cut from $2500 about 18 months ago.

[Dan Druff]

My current battle is why my $900 free play and gift offers during the fourth quarter were cut to $550 in the first quarter of 2015. And why they were cut from $2500 about 18 months ago.

That might be your "battle", but it's one you probably won't win. Very hard to get them to adjust what the marketing computer spits out.

I would suggest just going for the discretionary comps. Find out what you can expect, and then milk them.

BTW, I don't believe that theo is adjusted based upon the VP game you're playing. I think there is one theo level per dollar wagered for slots, and one for VP. I don't think the system cares if you are playing 99.54% JoB or some awful 96% DDB game.

[Alan Mendelson]

BTW, I don't believe that theo is adjusted based upon the VP game you're playing. I think there is one theo level per dollar wagered for slots, and one for VP. I don't think the system cares if you are playing 99.54% JoB or some awful 96% DDB game.

Dan I am surprised you said that. Of course the theo for VP games varies just as the theo for different bets at craps varies and the theo on blackjack and other table games varies.

In my case my theo and offers were cut because of bogus reports of my play at roulette on a day I wasn't even in the casino.

Fixing my offer amount can be worth four thousand dollars or more to me over the course of a year -- a lot more than discretionary comps for some dinners.

Since my host is on my side regarding the bogus reports I am certainly not going to alter the focus over getting a dinner comped.

Choose your battles wisely Dan. Don't mess over the Gatorade when you have champagne at stake.

[dannyj]

Alan,
I certainly appreciate you wanting to straighten out the bogus report / roulette thing, anyone would, but do you think your future offers reduction are solely tied to this one erroneous report?

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan,
I certainly appreciate you wanting to straighten out the bogus report / roulette thing, anyone would, but do you think your future offers reduction are solely tied to this one erroneous report?

My host told me that this one erroneous report cut my offers in HALF.

[Count Room]

Choose your battles wisely Dan. Don't mess over the Gatorade when you have champagne at stake.

This would be an excellent signature quote for posting on Dan's PFA forum, hahaha.

Also Alan, how can you expect such big offers if you've completely cut off your play for the rest of 2014 aside from freeplay?

I've noticed recently that casinos can respond by sharply reducing freeplay in as little as 6 weeks rather than the standard 2-3 months. Example: I had a decent winning trip during the last week of September (approx. $4,000) and the casino sent me **ZERO** mailers for November/December.

[Alan Mendelson]

I was referring to Rincon when I commented about how I cut off my play except for free play. I don't go to Vegas that often.

My offers at Rincon have been dropping dramatically, and I've commented about that here. I really question whether I will be playing at Rincon much at all in 2015. Besides, Gwen doesn't like the place and would much rather go to Caesars. Except for Fiore there really aren't dining options at Rincon and entertainment is limited.

Yes, I dramatically reduced my play at Rincon in the fourth quarter and frankly I don't care what happens with their offers in 2015.

My problem with Caesars offers in Vegas is directly tied to the one bogus report. Here is the original post from Nov 11, 2014 in the thread titled "What is your daily theoretical?" which is also on the Las Vegas forum:

We all know that casino comps and offers and free play promotions are linked to your daily theoretical -- meaning how much you bet, and how much the casino expects they will win from your bets.

But does the casino have your daily theoretical correct?

Earlier today I was on the phone with my host at Caesars and I was complaining about the big drop (by about 50%) in offers I received for January and February 2015.

My host explained that my daily theoretical dropped dramatically and while looking at my play history on the phone my host mentioned in particular my visit to Caesars Palace on July 19 when I "bought in" to a game of roulette for only $100 (one hundred dollars) and played just 20 minutes with a $48 loss.

"That really killed your daily theoretical" my host informed me. "That small amount of play for one day actually cut your daily theo in half."

But -- there's a problem. I did not play roulette at Caesars Palace with a $100 buy in. Nor did I lose $48 over a 20 minute period. You see -- I wasn't in Vegas at all on July 19 and so I never played roulette. (I can't remember the last time I played roulette but I think it was about ten years ago.)

That's when my host realized that somehow another player's "play" found it's way onto my record and I was being penalized for the error.

My host is now going to the marketing department to find out how to "undo" the error. But my host also said this could be a big problem. I will keep you posted.

After we found that error, we went through all of my other visits for the year, and noted that they all appeared to be in my normal range of play. But as my host pointed out JUST ONE visit with low play literally killed my "daily theo" and cut my offers by about one-half.

[Count Room]

OK, I now see what you are saying, Alan. Thank you. I remember reading that frustrating report and I should have paid a little closer attention.

[Dan Druff]

Dan I am surprised you said that. Of course the theo for VP games varies just as the theo for different bets at craps varies and the theo on blackjack and other table games varies.

In my case my theo and offers were cut because of bogus reports of my play at roulette on a day I wasn't even in the casino.

Fixing my offer amount can be worth four thousand dollars or more to me over the course of a year -- a lot more than discretionary comps for some dinners.

Since my host is on my side regarding the bogus reports I am certainly not going to alter the focus over getting a dinner comped.

Choose your battles wisely Dan. Don't mess over the Gatorade when you have champagne at stake.

I forgot about the bogus roulette session. Yes, you should get that fixed.

Still, I stand behind what I said regarding spending your remaining $273 RCs and getting discretionary comps.

[Alan Mendelson]

Still, I stand behind what I said regarding spending your remaining $273 RCs and getting discretionary comps.

I will be using those RCs over New Year's weekend. Being realistic: I think my host is going to be too busy to bother with me and a request for discretionary comps. There will be a lot of people asking for everything over New Year's, and there will be a lot of big players -- way bigger than I am -- demanding attention.

Besides all that: I might not be playing that much over New Year's weekend. Table limits will be high, the casinos will be crowded. We're looking forward to a great show and dinners.

[Dan Druff]

I will be using those RCs over New Year's weekend. Being realistic: I think my host is going to be too busy to bother with me and a request for discretionary comps. There will be a lot of people asking for everything over New Year's, and there will be a lot of big players -- way bigger than I am -- demanding attention.

Besides all that: I might not be playing that much over New Year's weekend. Table limits will be high, the casinos will be crowded. We're looking forward to a great show and dinners.

But that's not really your problem, is it?

You shouldn't be concerned about the host's workload. Just ask for the discretionary comps and see what happens?

Unless you're not going to play, in which I understand.

Alan, how are you assuring that you are going to get an Augustus room with a view? I had to bend over backwards to get this on New Year's two years ago. I had a little more clout then because I played more, though hotel operations doesn't have access to that. Do you assure this through your host?

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan you call yourself overcomped yet you have trouble getting an Augustus room with a view for New Years?

[Dan Druff]

Dan you call yourself overcomped yet you have trouble getting an Augustus room with a view for New Years?

Alan, why shouldn't I have trouble? I don't have a host who wants to help me get it, for that very reason -- because I'm overcomped!

Let's just say that I have to make my own things happen at Caesar's.

I am just curious how you personally get this done. Does your host guarantee you a room in Augustus with a strip view and a high floor?

[Dan Druff]

Dan,

Assuming he is Seven Stars, why do you say it makes zero sense? What is the difference if you cash them out now or save them and cash them out for New Years regardless if you use them for meals or free play? Personally I would rather let my RC's build a little, cash them out for free play allowing me a bigger bankroll to play and possibly even play higher limits.

I can't see why anyone would ever choose cash over existing freeplay. At best it will be a neutral swap, and at worst you will really get screwed.

Here are some ways you can get screwed by "holding" your freeplay until later and using cash instead:

- CET goes bankrupt and RCs get wiped

- CET changes redemption exchange rate for RCs-to-freeplay (this is VERY possible, btw)

- You get sick/injured (or other life emergency) and cannot make it out to a CET property for 6 months, and your RCs expire

- You die

There's just no upside to holding them. You can always supplement freeplay with cash, so if you're willing to spend $500 cash now and use $500 freeplay later, why not just use $500 freeplay now and hold that $500 cash for gambling later? There's no way you can come out behind by doing this!

Let me put it a different way.

Let's say I own a restaurant called "Druff's House", and I give you $50 in Dan Druff Fun Bucks which can be used for $50 of food at my restaurant.

You come into my restaurant today and order $50 of food. Would it EVER make sense to pay cash for it, when you can instead use your Fun Bucks and get it for free? NO. You're just taking a totally unnecessary risk by doing so.

Can someone tell me the upside of holding RCs and spending cash instead?

Nash said, "I would rather let me RCs build a little, cash them out for freeplay, allowing me a bigger bankroll to play and possibly even higher limits". Huh?? You can do THE SAME THING with the cash you are spending on those same games today. Just bank the cash instead of the RCs!

[FABismonte]

Let's say I own a restaurant called "Druff's House", and I give you $50 in Dan Druff Fun Bucks which can be used for $50 of food at my restaurant.

You come into my restaurant today and order $50 of food. Would it EVER make sense to pay cash for it, when you can instead use your Fun Bucks and get it for free? NO. You're just taking a totally unnecessary risk by doing so.

I do not like to trust any business to hold my money (or equivalent) based on an unsecured promise to perform later. In the first week of last November, my wife purchased a pre-paid package of beauty treatments from a beauty-care company with over 100 stores all over the USA. One week later the store she went to was shuttered. A Google search I subsequently undertook produced a press release that the company filed for bankruptcy, let it employees suddenly go, and had alleged it had only $50,000 in assets but $10 million in debts. We will never get the money back as a unsecured creditor.

Moral of the story? I guess you can figure it out.

FAB

[Aaron]

We will never get the money back as a unsecured creditor.

If you used a credit card do a charge back. All credit cards allow it in the case of bankruptcy.