Alan,
I take odds when I bet pass or come because it lower the house edge. That does not mean I have the advantage over house, just that their edge is reduced. Now that I know that they don't count the odds bet towards my rating here in Oregon I will place the point for $30, instead of $5 pass line and $25 odds. Thank you regnis for opening my eyes to this.
I have never played for comps and unlike Dandruff am probably undercomped because I hate to ask for anything and have always gotten whatever I want or need anyway.
Years ago I did all the math (don't have the energy now-lol) as to the theoretical loss and the percentage of the theo that is returned as comps and I found that where the odds are not counted, the loss of comps far outweighed the slight difference in the odds or house edge. It was not even close. So I have altered my play at Caesars accordingly, although at this point I just prefer place and buy bets and not worrying about the 7 or craps on the come-out. Unless I am the shooter and have to bet the pass, I wait for the point to be established and place it unless they allow put bets (and count the odds on the put bet).
Again--remember that placing the 6 for 50 pays 60. A 10 pass with 40 odds pays 58. So at that level Danny is not losing anything except comps. When you get up to the level at which I play, those comps are significant. I f I have 500 out there in place bets or buy bets, the return in comps in that theoretical loss far outweighs the lesser payoff for the place bet vs. the pass or come. Admittedly, the payoff is slightly less than if I took odds when you get to more than 5x odds. But again, the comp value is significantly more (especially when I'm tossing black chips on the hard 10).
So it is not playing longer or betting more to get comps which is a sin, it is playing to the casino's rules re counting odds for comps.
I'm really interested in seeing more about this, especially since it's a mystery what/how Caesars comps for table games.Originally Posted by regnis
How do you figure the comps for average bets?
So, you admit that comps determine your betting.Originally Posted by dannyj
Well, in this instance, i suppose they (comps) do. I'm making a wager that earns comps that is equal to another wager that does not.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Again-as long as he is not betting more or playing more to earn comps, all he is doing is betting his regular amount in a manor that will earn him more comps than the traditional pass and come with odds.
My other problem with come bets as opposed to place bets is that you get paid on every other time the number appears, whereas on the place bet you get paid each time.
This is the #1 problem with "come betting." You need a repeater to win money with come bets, and the reality is that the average shooter throws the dice only something like five times which doesn't give you much chance for repeaters.Originally Posted by regnis
But if I were a darkside player, I definitely would use a "don't come" strategy with odds because the average shooter only throws the dice about five times.
Still... I would like to know what you know about the comp formula for table players? If you are going to say that place betting gets better comps than odds betting, just what are the comps/amounts/rates you are talking about?
HUH?!Originally Posted by regnis
Placing the 6 for $50 is a bad place, but I'm sure they'll do it..
$48 pays $56, then the $2 breakage will pay even money, so $2; for a total of $58, NOT $60.
A $10 pass line with $40 odds on the 6 will pay $58 indeed...
Is that what you meant? Both will pay the same?
REALISTICALLY, if you can FIND ONE; a Casino that lets you buy for $30 and only pay $1 vig (on the win) would be the best bet/theo earner.
$30 would win you
6/8 = $36
5/9 = $44 ($45 - $1 vig)
4/10 = $59 ($60 - $1 vig)
The last time I did this, it was at GrandSierra Resort (Reno) I did this for a few weeks...then the floor supervisor saw me doing it and put a QUICK stop to it (because I was getting rated for basically a $30 place bet with only giving up ~1% HE.)
So, I had to go down to a $24 bet ($25 on the 4/10 for ease for the dealers)
6/8 = $28
5/9 = $35 ($36 - $1 vig)
4/10 = $49 ($50 - $1 vig)
However, almost ZERO places let you buy the 5/9...Hell, only a couple let you pay vig on win only, on the 4/10...
Caesars Palace used to charge the vig on the 4/10 buy but about 8-10 years ago they switched to pay on the win.
At Rincon you pay when you make the bet and pay again to keep the bet up after a win.
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