Ridiculous.
The threshold of $1200 in 1977 is worth over $4600 in 2015!
It should be going way UP, not down, to keep up with inflation.
This will wreak havoc upon video poker and slot machine players. I hope this doesn't happen.
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Its really absurd. You hit anything and here comes the folks to fill out the tax farms, even though you've probably lost more than that one good hand. And unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I am retired and disabled so I don't owe on a house and no longer itemize deductions so I can't balance off with my loses. Hope the IRS doesn't get away with this one.
This is at the same time that the horse racing industry is putting on a hard push with the IRS to change the way we are taxed. We have to sign on any payoff of 300-1; or $602 on a $2.00 bet. But some of the bets that create those larger payoffs, involve bets of hundreds if not thousands of dollars. The big push is to still tax at $600, but to consider all of the various bets that went into that one bet, not just the winning $2.00 bet.
Just to clarify, if you bet a $2.00 trifecta 1-2-3 and it pays over $600, you have to sign. But you may have boxed 1-2-3 in the trifecta, which is actually 6 $2.00 bets, so you should only have to sign if the payoff is $3,600, not $600. That is what is being argued and will hopefully pass.
The idea was to put horse racing on similar rules as other gambling. So this really screws up everything.
It's been a way of life: tax the sins. Gamblers have always had a bad break from the IRS. What this will do is:
1. Push more casino action to tables
2. Make it more expensive for casinos to operate slots because of paperwork, and staffing to pay winners
3. Limit action on higher denomination machines which also will cut casino profits
Originally Posted by regnis
Regnis: Although I certainly won't argue against raising the threshold amount for a W2G (yes, it's ridiculously low), the argument about the 6 $2.00 bets to make the W2G limit higher is dangerously flawed unless all the bets are on a single ticket. Even so there still may be problems, for what if I wanted to box 3 horses and key one of the boxed horses to win with two other horses outside the box? I don't think I have seen that setup on a single pari-mutuel ticket before, even though I am purchasing a bunch of combinations to try to win the trifecta, theoretically qualifying myself for a larger limit based on my total bets.
Even if we accept the inherent snags using a single ticket for the multiple-bet rule, it gets even more dangerous if the single ticket idea is not taken into consideration at all. If I hit a huge longshot trifecta paying $12,000, all I would have to do is find 19 discarded betting slips on the floor that wagered on the same trifecta race to arbitrarily raise my personal limit to what I won so I can avoid a W2G altogether even with a 5-figure win.
EDIT: I'd better provide an example to make my original concern a bit clearer:
I go to the teller and buy a $2 box for the trifecta on a given race. Horses # 3, 4, and 7. One ticket. 6 combinations. $12
I also want a key with horse #4 over the #2 and #8 either way (2nd and 3rd). One ticket. 2 combinations. $4
First ticket qualifies for a $3,600 W2G limit. (6 bets)
Second ticket qualifies for only a $1,200 limit. (2 bets)
This is despite the fact that I made 8 bets and qualify for a $4,800 limit!!
Last edited by Count Room; 03-10-2015 at 10:54 AM.
Looks like it may add even more reason to play at Ceasars Windsor, Canada rather than a Detroit as winnings in Canada are not reported to the IRS by the casino.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Everybody here on Alan's forum will be crowding around the Pick' Em machines at Windsor to avoid the IRS and we won't get an open seat nowOriginally Posted by FABismonte
You are absolutely correct, and this is one of the hangups. How do you define and/or prove what your total investment was in that winner. It is more applicable to multi-race tickets like pick 5 and pick 6. But even there, good players use multiple tickets comprised of various combinations of A rated, B rated, and C rated horses. But any increase over the $2.00 starting point will help.Originally Posted by Count Room
They seem to have a shot at finally getting this one passed. But again, the mechanics will be difficult. One factor that may make it easier is that more than 70% of wagers are made off track, with a large portion of that on-line where there is actual documentation easily obtainable.
Actually, this may not be true. FINTRAC (Canada's equivalent of USA's FINCEN) requires casinos to report any disbursements of $10,000 or more in a 24 hr period. So, if you happen to get really lucky and hit a $2 Pick'em Royal, that $12,000 grand they pay you will be reported to FINTRAC and "FINTRAC may also disclose the designated information to Financial Intelligence Units (FIU) in countries with which Canada has a reciprocal FIU information-sharing agreement." So U.S gambler beware!Originally Posted by FABismonte
Just an FYI for my American cousins.
As a software developer, the easy solution here is to have the slot machine print out the tax forum. Maybe a human has to come verify the players ID though or that could be done via players card.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Isn't the real issue here the fact that as Americans you have to report to the IRS any money you make. To the IRS they include gambling as income. However that means you can deduct your losses, but you have to keep good records.
Taxing winnings on the spot lowers tax evasion.
Canada does not treat gambling as income so I generally get to ignore this. I think the only exception is a pro poker player.
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