At What Point Do You Stop?

[NorthOf49]

I had an interesting encounter at the casino yesterday, as the wife and I were about to leave, and it got me thinking. (At what point does one stop "feeding the machine?")

An older gentleman who was playing the 1 cent ($1.25 max bet) slot machine next to my wife calls me over as we were walking away and says to me, "look...I've put over $1200 in this machine and I've gotten nothing in return." Then he shows me his reward credits on the machine: it was well over 3000 (I don't remember the exact number.)

Then he starts complaining to me about how the casino lures you in here with these "free" gifts (it was a duvet) to get you to play and then doesn't give you anything in return. I really didn't know what to say, I tried to sympathize with him by maligning the casino. "That's awful, they know what they're doing...it's all rigged...I'm sorry for your loss."

I watched him play a little more as he continued to bitch and complain. And the machine really did seem to be "dead-cold." At that point 2 questions entered my mind: 1) Why would you tell a complete stranger how much you've lost in a penny slot machine? Especially that much money! 2) At what point do you cut your losses and just quit and go home?

First, I would never tell anybody how much I was down; I'd be way too embarrassed. I really couldn't believe this guy was telling me this. (I once lost about 9 grand in one session playing $5 Pick'em years ago and immediately bolted for the exit, humiliated, and sick to my stomach!)

Secondly, after losing 2 or 3 hundred in a penny slot, wouldn't it occur to you that your playing a "dead-cold" machine and that maybe you should move to another machine or take a break? I calculated that even if he were to hit the top winning combination, at this point, he wouldn't even get his money back--yet he proceeded to insert yet another $100 dollar bill in it as we wished him luck and left.

This encounter was kind of an eye opener for me since I don't think I've ever consciously thought about what point at which I would stop playing in a session. I've been focused on stopping after attaining a preset amount win goal. But even this is arbitrary. I'm thinking maybe I won't spend more than the "Royal" amount of the denomination I'm playing (typically $0.25...so $1000) since anything beyond that makes it unlikely that I'd come out ahead, let alone break even.

I don't know...how do some of you manage your VP sessions? At what point do you stop when your down considerably in a session?

[Alan Mendelson]

I always have a stop loss. Unfortunately I reach it too often.

If I have a real problem it's not bolting after reaching a win goal.

Regarding your experience in the post above, Northof49, we don't know what the finances are for this particular player or if he has any sorts of goals or loss limits for his play. Everyone complains about casino games -- it's part of the nature of gamblers in a casino, isn't it?

I think it's very interesting that you wrote this, because I think the same way: I calculated that even if he were to hit the top winning combination, at this point, he wouldn't even get his money back

I developed my own stop loss based on this same idea that you expressed. I never want to lose more than what I could regain if I hit a small jackpot.

For example, on $5 Aces and Faces video poker, quad Jacks, Queens or Kings pays $1,000. If I am down $1,000 I am at my loss limit.

[redietz]

I have never understood the concept of playing negative expectation games. If the games aren't positive expectation, or at least provide positive return when factoring in comps considered valuable, then don't play. Plus analyze the risk of ruin for the positive expectation games and have sufficient bankroll to handle them. If these conditions aren't met, then don't play. That eliminates the need to ask the question, "When should I stop?"

[Alan Mendelson]

Unfortunately playing a positive expectation game doesn't make you a winner. We all wish it were that easy.

I will never make in a casino what I earn working.
I lost more on ex wives than I ever lost in casinos.

Frankly I'm amazed by those who claim they are long term winners.

[redietz]

There's nothing easy about being disciplined and skilled enough to play only positive expectation games. It's immensely easier to say, "Positive expectation games don't make you a winner," and then use that as a rationale to play negative expectation games.

Early in my career, I sat next to a man at the Stardust who emotionally looked as if he had just lost his family or had some disaster befall him. He was on tilt, shaking and nervous and wide-eyed and not in control. He was well-dressed, but was a jittery, sweating mess. Over the course of the last few months, he said, he had bankrupted himself betting sports. He gave me the story of his debacle and then, at the conclusion of his parable about losing tens of thousands, he absurdly begged me for $10 to play a parlay card. He really, truly begged me, as if my giving that $10 would save his life.

That has always stayed with me as a caveat. The pseudonymous Rob Singer, whatever his faults, did some people a service by hammering about the fact that video poker play for most is addictive and pointless.

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually the big problem is that positive expectation video poker games rarely exist. But when they did, I never hit a royal which meant I never had a positive edge.