Rob Singer's ban has been lifted.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm going to say something that seems ludicrous on the surface, but it directly parallels the debates about Rob's systems. There are multi-million dollar lottery winners. Some have written books. Should we interpret their tax returns as providing credibility for their ways of playing the lottery?

Excellent point.

I remember when I was working as the business reporter for KCAL that I covered the press conference where a lottery winner was awarded some mega prize. And the winner claimed he had a system for picking lottery numbers. Yet, he never won again.

On the other hand, one of my neighbors when I used to live in Valencia won the darn California lottery twice in one year. But this was when the jackpots were smaller. If I recall the wins were for about 4-million and 3-million. But he made no claims about a system. He did however spend his time driving through the neighborhood and complaining to the HOA if someone's house wasn't properly gardened or painted.

[Count Room]

I'm going to say something that seems ludicrous on the surface, but it directly parallels the debates about Rob's systems. There are multi-million dollar lottery winners. Some have written books. Should we interpret their tax returns as providing credibility for their ways of playing the lottery?

Why not? It wouldn't hurt the lotto winner's case at the very least even if the lotto is a sucker's bet overall. Rob is trying to show us that -EV VP is not an automatic death sentence for the gambler. Many of the facts and figures Rob has shared over the years on his website and in the Gambling Times (forgot the exact name) could be at least semi-corroborated with tax return figures.

It would still be up to the individual as to whether such information would provide credibility towards someone's playing method.

Bottom line: Who would you rather have as a teacher in any endeavor (even a fool's errand endeavor such as the lottery)? A teacher with proven results or not?

EDIT: By the way, the lotto is a ONE-TIME win. Rob has supposedly been winning for years and years in MULTIPLE SESSIONS. So, yes, looking at tax returns over multiple years would be stronger evidence than a single lotto lightning strike.

[Vegas Vic]

EDIT: By the way, the lotto is a ONE-TIME win. Rob has supposedly been winning for years and years in MULTIPLE SESSIONS. So, yes, looking at tax returns over multiple years would be stronger evidence than a single lotto lightning strike.

Without real time recorded visual proof that HIS system was the actual play that produced every alleged win, the end result by itself proves nothing. We all can say whatever we want after the royal (or major jackpot) has hit: "My system of drinking a pint of chocolate milk 3 times a day and then romping through town works because I say it does, and all you addicted AP players can kiss off."

Was anyone really buying what he was selling?

[jbjb]

The only time I will EVER raise my bet while gambling is while paying blackjack, and ONLY when the count dictates that I have an advantage. Otherwise, no matter what I'm playing, it's table minimum. Chasing losses by betting more money is disastrous!

[Alan Mendelson]

I never doubted his wins and his big wins were documented in Gaming Today. But the wins don't prove his system. When it comes to gambling NO system can be proven. Even playing "perfect strategy" doesn't mean you will win.

And that's why I think it's up to each player to decide how they want to play.

I never endorsed Rob's "special plays," but I still say his win goals and loss limits make sense even if you are playing a positive expectation game.

And regarding his annual wins of $100K per year -- again I don't doubt it. Playing big denominations with a little luck and you will win that kind of money.

By the way, he can lie on his taxes to cover up his actual winning years (who wants to pay taxes?) so tax returns won't be any proof. If I had a year of profits I certainly wouldn't want to show the profits. Heck, I'd do anything possible to offset the wins including asking all the rest of you to send me your losing lottery tickets. LOL (Just joking, of course.)

[Count Room]

Was anyone really buying what he was selling?

I try to keep an open mind, because wouldn't it be nice to have an actual way to beat the casinos at -EV machines? One can at least entertain the dream...

I'll respectfully maintain my minority opinion on the value of those tax returns. If Rob was winning without needing royals or other jackpots, he wouldn't have to claim a lot of losses would he? That in itself would say a lot (if it's true, and I'm not entirely certain).

[Count Room]

By the way, he can lie on his taxes to cover up his actual winning years (who wants to pay taxes?) so tax returns won't be any proof. If I had a year of profits I certainly wouldn't want to show the profits. Heck, I'd do anything possible to offset the wins including asking all the rest of you to send me your losing lottery tickets. LOL (Just joking, of course.)

Didn't Rob say somewhere a long while back that ALL of his wins (both big W2G sessions and small, non-jackpot wins) are properly recorded for the tax authorities? He even said he had been audited once and that he has a relative working for the IRS, didn't he?

[redietz]

In fairness to Rob, I have to say that if his overall way of playing negative EV games is only a tenth of a percentage point or two inferior to precision AP play, then the way he plays with the huge denomination swings may provide such superior comp results that the overall value may be pretty good, and possibly superior to AP play. I have to think that the comp and host system would reward someone who seems to be playing impulsively leaping from quarters to the highest denominations, and who puts the massive amounts into play that Rob does. Whether it's a host or computer program, the effect of Rob's profile almost has to result in better comps than the average bettor. So, in an ironic way (because Rob disdains using the comp system to tally value), Rob's non-AP player profile may benefit him quite a bit.

I think his son works for the IRS.

[Alan Mendelson]

I think it's his nephew who works for the IRS.

If Rob wants to write an article explaining all this, I will publish it in his section. But I am not letting him return to the forum to respond.

[arcimede$]

While his tax returns would never prove his system works, they would show he's been lying. If the returns showed no gambling wins then it would be obvious he lied. That is why he will never provide his returns to anyone and why he backed down last time.