W2G threshold change proposal

[Alan Mendelson]

Now, people who never got W2Gs might start to get many of them.

Agreed. As the threshold is lowered, more W2Gs and more tax issues both for the players and the casinos.

[regnis]

Yikes!!!!

In 2011 I had $1.29-million in W2Gs. I had a yearly loss. But Illinois would have bankrupted me.

That's why I gave up casino gambling other than to kill a few hours now and then. But it has become a significant problem with horses. I have hesitated to file as pro but may need to in future.

[redietz]

Wow, regnis, I did not know that about Illinois. That is rough.

So, if you do not itemize, and depending on your tax bracket, you could figure an "after taxes" payback percentage for the various video poker games. For most quarter games, only the RF comes into play. For games above 25 cents, very complicated.

Arci, opportunity knocks. You could come up with an app for that, and Alan could promote it.

[regnis]

Yes--this all changed a long time ago (maybe 20 years or so) when for federal purposes (IRS) they changed the manner in which you could offset losses from a net on the 1040 page 1 (if memory serves me) to a Schedule A deduction. For federal purposes, people that don't itemize deductions got screwed.

For Illinois purposes, they never changed the Illinois 1040 to coincide with the federal change. It was not intentional--just stupidity---no one understood the significance of the change. In Illinois, your starting point on the Illinois tax return is your adjusted gross income from the federal 1040, which does not include the losses that are itemized on Schedule A. There is no where to take the losses. I did everything short of filing a lawsuit against the state back then. There is a place on the Illinois return for "other subtractions", the definition of which does not include gambling losses. I claimed the losses there as a means to get it in an appeal status---the State would not budge. I considered a class action but people were afraid of retribution.

Finally, we had to just accept it. People with fake ID/SSN or otherwise non taxable status made a fortune "signing" for people with large winners at the track. They would take 10%.

[Alan Mendelson]

Arci, opportunity knocks. You could come up with an app for that, and Alan could promote it.

I could have a half hour Infomercial on the History Channel late nights right after Pawn Stars.

[redietz]

Thanks, regnis. That makes sense. That's a real opportunity for some proxy income if you have non-taxable status.

Wow -- that is just brutal, though.

[regnis]

I'd rather you get Scoblete and film the dice control schematic.

[Rob.Singer]

There's always discussions on vpFree about at least 9 states that I can recall, that are either like Illinois or similar in some ways. In short, the player gets screwed, especially the BIG player. I've also been to a number of them that deduct state taxes right on the spot, and it's not worth the paperwork nightmare to try and get it back.

No question it's always an uphill battle when you don't file schedule C. That's why players have to decide for themselves what to do....what's optimal for them. I'm finding rougher than expected going the past few years after some big hits without the benefit of schedule C razzle dazzle. I've had to adjust my play down to $2 max--and very rarely at that--after having to send a big check in with my last two returns. So if this $600 threshold becomes reality, I'll just have to adjust for that also if I want to continue playing. I don't care if casinos go bankrupt over this. That's their problem.

[Alan Mendelson]

In Illinois, your starting point on the Illinois tax return is your adjusted gross income from the federal 1040, which does not include the losses that are itemized on Schedule A. There is no where to take the losses. I did everything short of filing a lawsuit against the state back then. There is a place on the Illinois return for "other subtractions", the definition of which does not include gambling losses. I claimed the losses there as a means to get it in an appeal status---the State would not budge. I considered a class action but people were afraid of retribution.

Probably 90+% of my website's readers are in California, but if you would like to use the site to launch your campaign I will help you as best I can, including other Internet inbound and outbound marketing. And I work with some PR and advertising agencies in Chicago who might be able to give some assistance with media contacts.

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't care if casinos go bankrupt over this. That's their problem.

Believe this: the casinos won't go bankrupt over this.

[arcimede$]

At the moment I have $118,000 in W2Gs this year. At this rate I'll hit around a quarter million for the year (statistically I should hit around $200K total). If I couldn't deduct my losses this would be catastrophic. I would have to cut back to at most 1$ denom and even lower with the new $600 limit.

[redietz]

What arci said is exactly it -- that set of tax laws makes video poker virtually unplayable above 25-cents.

[Alan Mendelson]

What about players shifting to table games? The only time I ever got a W2G in craps was when I hit the Firebet for all six.

[regnis]

There is more to it than just the W2G. In table games, the casino has to fill out and disclose to the government all cash transactions of $10,000 or more (in total for the day). Some casinos have chosen to report at $3,000. When I played a lot of craps, there was rarely a day when my total buy ins did not exceed $10,000, and/or at some point I had $10,000 in the rack. All of those were reported.

[Alan Mendelson]

I guess I don't have to worry about craps. I've never had those kind of buy-ins.

[regnis]

I never divorced so I had to find other ways to piss away large sums of money

[dannyj]

Regnis,
With Illinois being one of the highest taxed states, do you ever think of moving one day?

[Alan Mendelson]

Regnis,
With Illinois being one of the highest taxed states, do you ever think of moving one day?

This is an interesting question. Most of us are forced to live where we work. I am sure regnis needs to live there now just like I have to live here in LA for my work. Once I retire or become a rock star I will have other options.

[redietz]

What about the Richard Gere stunt double work?

[regnis]

Actually, income tax is not that high in Illinois. But everything other than the air you breathe is taxed here. The state is broke and corrupt. The city of Chicago is broke and corrupt, and has had its credit rating downgraded to junk bond status--lower than Detroit. Real estate taxes are among the highest.

But Chicago is a great city,

I personally cannot leave because I am only licensed here and have built a practice here that I am too old to attempt to do elsewhere. But upon retirement (which in my case is probably death), nobody stays here anymore. The weather and cost of living in Arizona, Florida, South Car., and Kentucky are much more inviting, and I have clients calling every day telling me they are moving.