Hi everyone from Frank Kneeland

[Frank Kneeland]

Alan asked me to join this forum and let you know of a project I am working on.

I was asked by more than one person to give "my opinion" on the Rob Singer system. At the start of this I knew next to nothing of his system and began the process of playing catch-up. I quickly realized that this was going to be no simple task, as I would literally have to come up with a rating system from scratch and develop some kind of a benchmark and baseline.

The project has now morphed into a broad-spectrum study into gambling information in general that will include testing a large random sampling of 18-20 pre-gamblers to see what their level of general knowledge is pre and post exposure to various types of gambling related information.

When completed this study should provide a great many interesting points of information about what people believe about gambling, and the ability of strategy information to effect change in those beliefs.

Because of the scope of this study and what I believe to be the importance of same, there is no way to do it quickly. It will be done though, or else my name is not Rumpelstiltskin (perhaps that was a bad analogy).

Sincerely,

Frank Kneeland

[Vegas Vic]

Good luck with this venture. I've listened to you and Bob Dancer doing the radio gig, so I'm looking forward to your contributions in this forum.

[Alan Mendelson]

Thank you Frank. Please also use this Forum to announce additions to your site and if you will be returning to the radio. I also caught the show a few times via the web -- both live and archived.

[Frank Kneeland]

Good luck with this venture. I've listened to you and Bob Dancer doing the radio gig, so I'm looking forward to your contributions in this forum.

Thank you. As I'm sure you are aware I'm a professional video poker player, with a preference for high progressives. My real goal these days is to take what I've learned as a VP professional and adapt it to help people in general. Gambling is a profession with two very interesting aspects: one, it attracts people with cognitive distortions; and two, because of the mathematical nature of gambling, it makes it easy to spot these same biases. It is therefore, in my opinion, an incredible opportunity to gain a window into things in our human nature which do not reveal themselves as easily or at all in other venues.

Sure, I would like to help people gamble better, but my ultimate goal is to do far more than that. If all I did with my life was to help people play video poker a little better, I would consider it a failure.

~FK

[Alan Mendelson]

Frank, this would be a tremendous contribution, and an ironic one, if you could use the "cognitive distortions" of gamblers to help others with their disabilities or inabilities or to help them learn new abilities. I hope you will find success this with. Wouldn't it be ironic if video poker were used as a mind training tool?

We read a lot about why older people should use certain "mind games" to keep their minds young to fight various age-diseases that can affect the mind. VP is a thinking game which is why I prefer it over slots.

People might not think of craps as a skill game but I do because I attempt dice influencing, and that also prompts me to work on hand-eye coordination, much like shooting basketball or pitching baseball, or practice in a batting cage. The elderly might not be able to shoot baskets or swing at 60 mph pitches, but they can practice throwing dice to a certain point on a table with a certain speed, a certain pitch, and with a certain set of the dice with a certain rotation.

(PS I've also been asked to leave certain casinos because of dice influencing, but that is another story I've told elsewhere.)

[Frank Kneeland]

Well I'm not thinking it is a "mind training tool". My thinking is that it could certainly be a "mind revealing tool".

Consider this for a moment. The social sciences have for a long time now, known about many of the flaws in human cognition. But they are hard to test. If one suspects that the reason for our high divorce rate is that people are choosing mates based on biased heuristics (shortcuts we take in decision making), studying this is extremely difficult and the results almost always inconclusive. Love is hard to quantify and does not yield its secrets to mathematical analysis very well. Believe me, I've tried.

If one suspects a biased heuristic is responsible for a bad choice in casino game selection. Think how much easier that would be to test, and how much more conclusive the results would be.

Gambling is a contained microcosm where emotion & math dance around each other in easily observable patterns (I think it's the Watusi). It just needs a DJ to spin the records, change the beat, and get the party started. (Sorry, once I get started on a metaphor they take on a life of their own).

[Alan Mendelson]

So what would be the application of what you might find?

[Frank Kneeland]

So what would be the application of what you might find?

Well if I knew that, I guess I wouldn't have to do the research. I hope it will have far reaching application in and out of the gaming industry. Only time will tell.

I have great expectations, but nothing specific...and for me to conjecture this early on in the process would only bias my results.

~FK

[Alan Mendelson]

Well if I knew that, I guess I wouldn't have to do the research. I hope it will have far reaching application in and out of the gaming industry. Only time will tell.

I have great expectations, but nothing specific...and for me to conjecture this early on in the process would only bias my results.

~FK

That's actually both an honest answer and a beneficial answer. Years ago I knew a research scientist at one of the big pharmaceutical companies. His job was to look at plants and test them for possible cures. Cures to what? He didn't know. He just tested them against everything and for problems they didn't even have yet. And that's one way medicines are discovered.

[Frank Kneeland]

Dan Paymar is visiting me right now and we are working on new features for his trainer software OpVP ver 3. Did anyone have any suggestions?

[Vegas Vic]

Dan Paymar is visiting me right now and we are working on new features for his trainer software OpVP ver 3. Did anyone have any suggestions?

If it is at all possible, can the software contain a feature to go "full screen" so that the game will fill the screen as it does in the casino?

Also keep stats (which can be reset if desired) of the results of each hand played (how many FH, flushes, straights, etc.) for each game (DDB, JOB, etc) that you have played... both in number of and % of total.

Include Pick a Pair as one of the games.

[redietz]

As I mentioned earlier, "Singer's system" may have some positive elements for a good many individuals, regardless of its mathematical shortcomings.

Frank, I completely agree that "gambling" makes a wonderful keyhole through which to view judgements and the world of perceptual and memory biases in the service of belief systems. I think Gladwell's books opened the door for commercial possibilities for topics such as these. Current authors like Wiseman (59 Seconds) and Dutton (Split Second Persuasion) have primed the public's interest in these science-related themes.

Do you have much of an academic background? My late wife had doctorates in anthropology and demography, and the crew I'm hanging out with these days are sociologists and anthy folks. I'm trying to put together a "field trip" for them, because many have, surprisingly, never been to Las Vegas. I think their virgin observations could be priceless.

Please let me know how things are going. I'm working on a gambling book myself, and it touches on many subjects you're exploring.

[Frank Kneeland]

OK now I remember what I was talking about. I was saying that I prefer safer plays, over riskier plays, even if the risky plays are worth far more money. A big part of finding safe plays is scouting a lot. You walk all over town and only get on the highest progressives when you've scouted the entire city. A player like Bob likes playing more than scouting and usually stops at the first thing they find, which is rarely the best thing in town.

As far as only having three losing months during my career, that is accurate. Keep in mind that I have always partnered and split my results. I have had more losing months than that if you were to look only at my personal results. But my personal results are irrelevant when I was partnering. I remember once when I personally lost $45,000 in a month. Fortunately my partner won $107,000 that same month, so collectively we came out about $31,000 ahead each. Partnering really helps even out the swings and keeps your risk low.

[Frank Kneeland]

As I mentioned earlier, "Singer's system" may have some positive elements for a good many individuals, regardless of its mathematical shortcomings.

Frank, I completely agree that "gambling" makes a wonderful keyhole through which to view judgements and the world of perceptual and memory biases in the service of belief systems. I think Gladwell's books opened the door for commercial possibilities for topics such as these. Current authors like Wiseman (59 Seconds) and Dutton (Split Second Persuasion) have primed the public's interest in these science-related themes.

Do you have much of an academic background? My late wife had doctorates in anthropology and demography, and the crew I'm hanging out with these days are sociologists and anthy folks. I'm trying to put together a "field trip" for them, because many have, surprisingly, never been to Las Vegas. I think their virgin observations could be priceless.

Please let me know how things are going. I'm working on a gambling book myself, and it touches on many subjects you're exploring.

You indeed appear to be a man after my own heart. For me, no academic background other than the school of hard knocks and a couple points of extra IQ. Please drop me a line if you visit or would like to collaborate on anything.

[redietz]

Frank, we may have quite a few notes to compare, so probably best to wait until after football to get together. I'll be in Las Vegas next week, but it's wall-to-wall football stuff, so let's keep in touch. The hard part of my football season is over by Thanksgiving. I'll definitely be there in December, and I'm hoping to rope some of the social science profs into tagging along.

As the season progresses, I'll post how it's going for me here and on lvadvice.com. Let me know how you're doing with everything.