Rob Singer: $325 Free Play

[Alan Mendelson]

Okay Rob I have $325 of free play. Using your "system" how do I play it?

Anyone else?

[jbjb]

Run it through, cash out, leave.

[redietz]

I assume this is at Rincon with no sports book, so play it through once at vp or blackjack, cash out, leave.

[Alan Mendelson]

I wanted to try the Rob Singer method of playing different games and denominations.

edited to add:

Rob has discussed from time to time his various methods or special systems where he plays different games with a certain amount of credits assigned to each game and at each denomination and then taking the pays as "soft cashouts."

I wanted to try that with $325 of free play that I have.

As you know I only play Aces and Faces and Bonus Poker now, and sometimes Royal Aces Bonus on a lark at 25-cents and for a limited amount (I gave up double double bonus).

I am hoping Rob would tell me how to break down this $325 of free play per game and denomination and credits to see how I would do using his system. Rob has said his system can be adjusted to start at low levels. I am hoping he can do this starting at 25-cents because at Rincon there are 7/5 and 8/5 Bonus and Aces and Faces games at 25-cents. I am not sure about other games, however.

By the way, I routinely get about $300-350 of free play every few weeks and in the past when just playing Aces and Faces or Bonus at either 8/5 or 7/5 at $1 I've walked away with from about $200 to about $400. I think it's pretty "normal" to turn about $300-350 of free play into $200-400 of actual cash.

There were two sessions over the last five years when I hit a $4,000 royal using free play but it's not appropriate to average those unusual hits into the return or to use them to compare results with Rob's system.

[Rob.Singer]

First, $325 is not enuf to play SPS 1c thru dollars, even if you knew exactly how to play it, so that's out. ($764 required).

ARTT requires a minimum of four levels (5c thru 50c would work ($200 required) but it also requires playing BP plus an advanced BP game such as SDBP).

That brings us to what I believe will serve you best: RTT. The more levels the better, but you CAN play this one on just three levels (such as 5c/10c/25c, or 25c/50c/$1....or the better four-level 5c/10c/25c/50c). With $325 I'd stick with the latter, and play 50 credits @ 5c BP, 100 credits @ 10c BP, 150 credits @ 25c BP, & 200 credits @ 50c BP. Every time you get at least $5 ahead, you re-start at 5c.

This is assuming you can hack low-limit play. I've never had any problem doing it with free play, knowing I AM going to walk out with a profit. But if you finish and get pulled into continued play afterwards, nothing will work other than an earthquake evacuation.

[seemoreroyals]

Rob, I think I am going to try this on our trip to Tahoe next week at the Mountain Bar at Harvey's. They have machines that you can switch between 25c/50c/$1. My question is since I would be starting at quarter level instead of nickel level, at what dollar win amount should I restart and go back to quarters? Would you recommend 50 credits @ 25c BP, 100 credits @ 50c BP, 150 credits @ $1 BP, and at some point maybe throw some DDB in there to keep it interesting and to have a shot at some bigger wins?

[Rob.Singer]

Rob, I think I am going to try this on our trip to Tahoe next week at the Mountain Bar at Harvey's. They have machines that you can switch between 25c/50c/$1. My question is since I would be starting at quarter level instead of nickel level, at what dollar win amount should I restart and go back to quarters? Would you recommend 50 credits @ 25c BP, 100 credits @ 50c BP, 150 credits @ $1 BP, and at some point maybe throw some DDB in there to keep it interesting and to have a shot at some bigger wins?

Yes, 50/100/150 on BP is fine, with a $25 win goal re-start. If you want to add in DDBP then I suggest if you lose the 150 dollar credits, play $300 of them on DDBP, always remembering to return to 25c BP once you've made at least $25 in profit.

[jbjb]

I personally would just run it through the smallest denomination with the best pay table to avoid any hand pays. I'm my area, that's usually 9/6 JoB or the best BP I can find. I hate the variance of non paying two pair games.

[seemoreroyals]

Thanks Rob. I will report back on how it worked when we get back. Jbjb, the machines at Harvey's I will be playing, unless they have changed since our last visit in February, have 8/5 BP and 9/5 DDB. Oddly the JOB on these machines is also 8/5 so I never play JOB while on those machines. As others have mentioned Tahoe does have 9/6 JOB but it is only at the $1 level on the triple play machines in the HLR at Harrah's that I know of. If anyone knows of any 9/6 JOB at Harrah's or Harvey's please let me know.

[jbjb]

SMR, in your instance, I'd do the 8/5 BP.

Rob's strategy, if I'm correct, is based on losing then changing games and denominations. You aren't losing with free play, so why play his strategy? Again, play it through, cash it out, leave

[seemoreroyals]

I want to give Rob's strategy a try with my own money. Until proven otherwise, I think getting lucky and getting royals and 4oak's and having nice runs of straights, flushes, and full houses trump everything else. But you never know. I have tried some of Rob's special plays while practicing at home but so far have yet to have any major aha moments where his special plays yielded better results that optimal strategy. But you can't argue with his success so he must be doing something right. I have no problem tossing a flush and going for a royal on 4 to a royal but I every time I have tossed a winning pair to go for a royal on 3 to a royal it has not worked out. I hate throwing away winning hands unless it makes sense.

[jbjb]

I want to give Rob's strategy a try with my own money...

I can understand that, but we're talking about running free play through. Not using your own money.

[seemoreroyals]

I don't see what difference is as I see free play and my own money as one in the same.

[jbjb]

After you run it through sure. Free play is nothing more than a loss rebate.

[Rob.Singer]

In that context, just playing a penny machine one credit at a time, regardless if it's 6/5 or 8/5 BP, yields the best chance of leaving with close to the amount of your free play. But I've always looked at free play as a means of coming out of it with at least 50% as well as having a chance at a larger winner. That's why I use RTT with free play often.

[jbjb]

I agree on the smallest denomination argument. I personally don't like variance. If you do, then go for the big winners on a high denomination machine.

[jbjb]

Unless it's a small amount (less than $100), I rarely, if ever, get less than 95% of the FP amount.

[Count Room]

That brings us to what I believe will serve you best: RTT. The more levels the better, but you CAN play this one on just three levels (such as 5c/10c/25c, or 25c/50c/$1....or the better four-level 5c/10c/25c/50c). With $325 I'd stick with the latter, and play 50 credits @ 5c BP, 100 credits @ 10c BP, 150 credits @ 25c BP, & 200 credits @ 50c BP. Every time you get at least $5 ahead, you re-start at 5c.

This is assuming you can hack low-limit play. I've never had any problem doing it with free play, knowing I AM going to walk out with a profit. But if you finish and get pulled into continued play afterwards, nothing will work other than an earthquake evacuation.

LOL about the earthquake evacuation.

More serious question for Rob:

On your SPS and RTT you seem to advocate stepping all the way back down to the lowest denomination (even when playing one of the final levels) when slightly ahead in terms of overall bankroll. Wouldn't ratcheting back one denomination to play as you win smaller hands lower the risk?

EXAMPLE: I use the exact play structure you mentioned in the quote. I go all the way down to 50c BP and immediately hit a full house on the very first hand for 40 credits. I am $17.50 (35 credits at 50 cents) ahead of the 50c BP level. Wouldn't it be safer to immediately play off that $17.50 (70 credits at 25 cents) at 25c BP and see if I can profit there...steadily lowering denomination as I win instead of continuing to play 50c BP in the hopes of going all the way back to the beginning from the highest denomination?

You've talked about the soft profits with every win at a certain denomination level (40 credits or more) in your SPS. Why not immediately use that money at the next lower denomination for a lower risk way to climb back to the beginning level?

NOTE: I am not saying the structure of the credits and denominations should be any different than proposed; I am wondering if it would be safer to use small wins if you have a small surplus at...say...the 4th level to use as more ammunition at the 3rd level.

EDIT: Another term for what I am describing would be "backtracking" back up the denominational levels one-by-one with small wins (or perhaps 2 or more levels with a quad) as long as the higher levels are "full of the assigned credits" instead of being deep in the progression and only jumping back to the very lowest level even from the last level.

[dicepunk]

Interesting thread. Hey all, new to this forum. I noticed there are a lot posts discussing VP and strategies. For a newbie playing VP, can you recommend any books or where to find "free" information on the games and holding strategies (e.g. which cards to hold in different scenarios)? I'm sure it's not rocket science, just looking for some direction.

[seemoreroyals]

Welcome to the forum dicepunk. I would go to videopoker.com. Go to the LEARN section of their website and they have a wealth of information on books and training as well as links to additional video poker information.