A freeplay voucher is not the same as cash. If you put 5 $100 vouchers in and play $1 DDB for example, you play 100 hands and cash out. Now let's say that amount cashed out is $450. Had you done the exact same with cash and had the exact same hands, you'd have LOST $50. And if with the FP you cash out $550, you profit $550. With cash, you only profit $50. See the difference?
Last edited by jbjb; 06-15-2015 at 07:45 AM.
You are talking about it after the fact and I am talking about it before the fact. It is a difference in semantics. Sorry I brought it up. Neither of us is right or wrong and what is more important in this thread is the testing of Rob Singer's theories. I am looking forward to seeing what he has to say about the discussions we have had up to this point and any further advice he has for me when I test his theories at Tahoe in a couple of days.Originally Posted by jbjb
I see nothing wrong with using it to play his strategies. Some people even prefer to use free play as a chance at a huge slot machine jackpot as well. But don't ever think free play is the same as actual cash in hand as it's not, before or after the fact. It's a loss rebate.
In your opinion. I look at it differently than you do so can we just please leave it at that and move on?Originally Posted by jbjb
Last edited by seemoreroyals; 06-15-2015 at 11:02 AM.
It's not opinion, it's fact.
I don't want to get bogged down on free play vouchers in this thread. How about starting a different thread for the subject?
Not necessary.
As we learned in school, cash is fungible. Whether you put it in your left pocket, right pocket, your neighbor's pocket. Whether it is large bills, small bills, vouchers, checks, chips, it is all the same.
I see no difference between free play voucher and cash--other than you have to play it through once.
That being said, I would be very interested in a thorough strategic outline by Rob for this free play.
Try to sell free play vouchers at face value and see if you can get anyone to buy them. I wouldn't. But I'd gladly trade you the exact same amount of cash.Originally Posted by regnis
Stop. I am going to start another thread for discussing free play. Threads on this forum are FREE.
Who's paying for anything? I don't see anyone here trying to charge anyone for anything.
But you are correct, it did get off topic.
First point (and one that you should all learn by): I developed my play strategy with one eye on vp tournament goals. I played in many of those in my 1990-1996 AP days. And what is the lesson gleaned from this? YES, THAT A TOURNAMENT IS A ONE-OFF SINGLE FREAKING EVENT, UNAFFECTED BY ANY PLAY OR TOURNAMENTS THAT HAVE COME BEFORE, OR ANY THAT HAVE YET TO COME. So too is my "terrible, awful martingale-like -EV, heavy-bankroll/low win-goal play strategy. Will anyone ever get that....Even now?? So for those of you who are still confused and insist on applying long-term rules to individual short-term play, you're dead in the water. A strategy designed to win TODAY is a strategy designed to win EVERY day. And yes, the big hits outnumber the few big losses in both quantity and value, just as the many smaller wins FAR outnumber the few small losers. Those of you who get this might finally kick yourselves for not liking my continuous weekly publications on my winning for 8 years in Gaming Today.
Alan, as you know and as I practically begged Frank to do, witnessing my strategy being played on machines is the only way to "test" how successful they are. Simulations do nothing because the programmer is by default, too stupid to do it right. Also, you asked about $325 in free play, I have a quick recommendation for that, but it has NOTHING to do with playing any of my strategies.
Someone asked about why not use the soft profits within a lower denomination (or something like that) and about going back only one denomination instead of to the lowest denomination. First, soft profits are a valuable tool in the overall strategy. They help stave off bigger losses and they contribute to the session win goal. Secondly, in SPS your first mini-win goal is to be able to go back at least one denomination and continue play. But in RTT & ARTT, you do not. You must hit the session win goal before restarting on the lowest denomination. If a variation of that works as consistently or Korea than mine, I'm all ears.
thanks Rob. So what's your advice for me to use my $325 of free play?
Could you please tell me what SPS, RTT, and ARTT are or stand for?
Singer Play Strategy (the main one I used in my profit-making); Romp-Thru-Town (heavy on BP and developed for mugging many casinos in a day for $25 minimum each); and Advanced RTT (heavy on SDBP etc. And developed for lower bankrolled players).Originally Posted by seemoreroyals
I did so in the other thread. My approach may or may not be better than yours or some others' when it comes to getting the most out of free play. But I know how to WALK after playing it thru once. Few can do that consistently. Continuing to play usually only leads to trouble.Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Rob when I play $325 thru once my cash out is in the range of $200 to $400. Are you saying you have nothing better to offer for $325 of free play?
Correct. If it's not enough to bankroll a strategy session and you don't want to play it one penny at a time, then you can't do more than hope for the best.
Rob: Let's say the minimum full pay games start at 25-cents per coin with 8/5 Bonus or 8/5 Aces and Faces. What is the minimum starting "bankroll" to use your strategy and can you present that strategy here?
First, the pay table has nothing to do with the strategy. I go for the best available where I choose to play at.
Starting at 25c, I'd play a four-level ARTT up thru $2 (5,6,&7 levels offer greater winning opportunities--the more levels the better chance of reaching a mini-win goal--but I no longer play above $2). Bankroll required = $2400.
Feed $200 into the hungry machine--your first goal is to attain at least a $1.25 profit from every hand you will play. Your session goal is $50. Play as many as you like, but never play past a $200 overall profit. Enjoy the win. If you can't stomach such a "small" win goal then play more levels and the win goal goes up, or start at a higher level and the win goal goes up. The machines will be there tomorrow.
On 25c BP play a hand. Win or push, play another. Lose then go to 50c and play a hand. Push play another. Win 2pr. or greater then return to quarters and start again. Lose then go to $1 and play a hand. Push then play again. Win 2pr. or better then return to quarters and start again. Lose then go to $2 and play a hand. Push then play again. Win 2pr. or better then return to quarters and start again. Lose then play up to what the original $200 would allow you to play (NEVER play with your soft profits pocketed along the way) trying to attain that $1.25 profit minimum along the way.
If you lose the $200 then feed in $600 and play it on the $2 advanced BP game (SDBP, TBP+, SABP, DDBP in that order of preference). Your goal is to get the meter to read at least $810, whereupon you will go back to 25c BP and start again.
You need $2400 because you will not lose 3 sessions before attaining at least a $200 profit. Obviously, many session wins will be greater and much greater than $200, and these wins will greatly overwhelm the losses.
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