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Thread: Let's list the CET full pay/full tier VP machines here

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    All I'll say is that I've gotten a royal on my third hand after sitting down. The fastest one I've ever gotten. You just never know what will happen.
    I've hit one on my first hand at dollars and went straight home. 285 miles each way and it was 100% worth it. But anyone who either plays for or expects royals is more confused than Bob Dancer is about how to treat women.

  2. #22
    It looks like this thread has been hijacked.

    To respond to Dan's initial question. The only other CET video poker I know at above 99% pay back at dollars is at Lake Tahoe where there are three 3-play 8/5 Bonus Poker machines in the High Limit Room at Harrah's as well as in a three machine circle at Harrah's near the Harvey's tunnel entrance. Those same machines have 3-play and 5-play 9/6 JOB as a game option. Those six machines do not have 5-play 8/5 Bonus Poker, but if you are so inclined you can play 3-play 8/5 Bonus at the $2 credit level or $30 per hand.

    Last year I also saw a bank of 8/5 Bonus Poker at single line play at dollars in Harvey's with a progressive above $4,000 at a Royal Flush. I am not sure these are still there.

    FAB

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I've hit one on my first hand at dollars and went straight home. 285 miles each way and it was 100% worth it. But anyone who either plays for or expects royals is more confused than Bob Dancer is about how to treat women.
    I don't blame you for leaving. Mine was while our sloppy dealer was on break.

  4. #24
    Just a little example .... I've hit royals for $56,000 this year and I'm ahead by about $25,000. If I had been playing short coin I would have earned $10,000 on those royals and would be behind by $21,000. Anyone claiming that royals are not important is spewing idiotic nonsense.

  5. #25
    For the record I don't play for tier points but some players who just want to make 7 Stars getting tier points is their #1 goal. And if that's you and you want your points at $10/pt then one $25 coin at Caesars Palace will do it. Just don't hit a royal. LOL

  6. #26
    Originally Posted by arcimede$ View Post
    Just a little example .... I've hit royals for $56,000 this year and I'm ahead by about $25,000. If I had been playing short coin I would have earned $10,000 on those royals and would be behind by $21,000. Anyone claiming that royals are not important is spewing idiotic nonsense.
    I can't make any case for playing less than max coin in. Why play a game a percentage point or more inferior to what you could be playing?

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I can't make any case for playing less than max coin in. Why play a game a percentage point or more inferior to what you could be playing?
    Alan and Rob's point is because you are unlikely to hit a royal. Makes sense, right? Remember Rob is the guy who says to hold a single Ace instead of a low pair (or whatever the "special" play is) because of all the potential a single Ace has.

    You have a much better chance at hitting a royal in 20,000 hands than the chance of hitting 4 Aces or a royal by holding a single Ace. Don't short-coin VP where it hurts the royal payout, it's idiotic.


    Alan, are you sure those machines are $10/TC? Last time I was in there I could have sworn they were $25/TC.

  8. #28
    Harrah's Lake Tahoe:

    9/6 Jacks or Better (Extra Draw Frenzy 3/5/10 Play) (99.62%), $5/$10/$25/credit

    8/5 Bonus Poker (Quick Quads 50 Play) (99.55%), $0.25/$0.50/$1.00/credit

    Harrah's Atlantic City:

    9/7/4 Triple Double Bonus (99.58%), $0.25/$0.50/$1.00/$2.00/$5.00/credit
    Last edited by nerakil; 06-16-2015 at 04:12 PM.

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I can't make any case for playing less than max coin in. Why play a game a percentage point or more inferior to what you could be playing?
    As I explained there are people who want to make 7 Stars. And they can at one-half of a royal cycle.

    Actually if playing at $125 per hand is not an issue Dan could play five coins in the $25 games and get 12.5 points for each hand played.

    He would only have to play 400 hands per day to get the max tier points with bonuses at full pay with no penalty if he hit a royal.

    Dan: why not play $25 coin instead of $5 ??

  10. #30
    Huge volatility at an unquestionably -EV game? When you have NOL and Tahoe? Why add that extra risk if your goal is the guaranteed benefits?

    And nekaril, where did you see that at Harrahs?
    Last edited by synergistic; 06-16-2015 at 05:04 PM.

  11. #31
    There are two high limit rooms with full pay 9/6 Jacks and 8/5 Bonus at Caesars.

    The mini dome room on the main casino floor is $25 per tier point and the denominations are 5, 10, 25.

    In the Palace Court slots room (there is a cage there and bathrooms and snacks) they have full pay $25 and $100 machines that are $10/point.

    I hit my $20,000 royal on a $5/$10 machine in that room (only one machine) but it was $25/point.

    For the record: I don't play for points or comps. I play the best pay tables. But if you want $10/point on full pay games at Caesars you'll get it on $25 and $100 video poker.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    There are two high limit rooms with full pay 9/6 Jacks and 8/5 Bonus at Caesars.

    The mini dome room on the main casino floor is $25 per tier point and the denominations are 5, 10, 25.

    In the Palace Court slots room (there is a cage there and bathrooms and snacks) they have full pay $25 and $100 machines that are $10/point.

    I hit my $20,000 royal on a $5/$10 machine in that room (only one machine) but it was $25/point.

    For the record: I don't play for points or comps. I play the best pay tables. But if you want $10/point on full pay games at Caesars you'll get it on $25 and $100 video poker.
    I actually didn't realize CET LV offered any $10/TC games at 99%+ except at the $100 level - the $25 games aren't listed on VPFree. Regardless, that's too rich for my blood - neither my bankroll nor my stomach can handle $25 single play.

    This is just cereal box math, but... assuming you're determined to get $50k coin in, and assuming you only play 99.54 JoB:

    $100 single play: 100 deals => stddev ~ $22000
    $25 single play: 400 deals => stddev ~ $11000
    $5 single play: 2000 deals => stddev ~ $5000
    $1 ten line: 1000 deals => stddev ~ $3000
    $.25 fifty line: 800 deals => stddev ~ $2700

    If your only goal is to make it through ten of those sessions - just enough to make 7* - then arguably your best bet is spending ten days in New Orleans putting in a couple hours a day on their 99.78 DW44 machines. I actually considered that, but I actually decided I like gambling and have been trying to 'tease' some decent offers out of other properties. Totally depends on your goals - I think Dan handled it perfectly, given his goals.

  13. #33
    One or two per cent because of a short pay royal means nothing to a player who does not hit a royal. And what are the chances at hitting royal again....class?

  14. #34
    There is nothing wrong with what Dan is doing but did you see my latest post on the California forum? The latest rumor is that Rincon is doing away with the remaining full pay machines including 8/5 ACE$ and 8/5 Bonus and 8/5 Aces and Faces. And the rumor is at ALL denominations too. Then what is Dan going to do?

    I know what I'm going to do -- cut back my play even more than I've already done.

  15. #35
    He seems pretty good at math, I figure he'll weigh the value he gets out of the free hotel rooms against the risks at the best VP he can find with the best promos available and decide whether or not to run for it again in 2017. Rob isn't wrong when he says self-valuation is often done poorly, but I assume Dan has a pretty good handle on how much he'd spend otherwise.

    EDIT: Of course, folks with different goals - VP gamblers like us - will likely end up playing less or losing more.

  16. #36
    My casino play is now running at about only 25% of last year's pace. And I don't see any reason why it might increase in the months ahead.

  17. #37
    Yes, it does look like my thread got hijacked.

    nerakil, I am surprised that there are any $10/tier games left in AC. Are you sure about that? You probably are correct, because you've been right about everything else like this, but I'm just curious when the last time you saw that game.

    Also, can you explain the 99.64% JoB game in Tahoe? I didn't know that existed. (Though honestly I probably just would have stuck to 99.54% JoB anyway, at $1 5-pay, for variance sake.)

    What about the 99.40%, $10/tier at Flamingo? Is that gone now?

    To Alan: Running a few hands at a bad royal payout isn't awful, because the chance you will hit a royal in those few hands is so tiny. However, running thousands (or tens of thousands) of hands for less than max coinage is nothing short of idiotic. And I don't want to play $10/credit or more because the variance is way too high.

    To Rob: I don't understand you. I gave your system moderate props earlier, recognizing that your strategies give the player a (small) chance to win in the long term, as opposed to grinding to a certain (but smaller) loss. But now you're saying that the huge payouts don't matter, and that it's just fine to take an 80% reduction in the biggest pay the machine has to offer? Huh?? That goes against everything else you've said here for years.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  18. #38
    Also, regarding my 7 Stars... I have it now until March 31, 2017, unless they change something.

    I am not sure if I will renew it at that point. It will depend upon a few things:

    1) If there are still $10/Tier 99%+ games in California or Nevada
    2) If I still plan upon taking more Norwegian Cruises. It is possible I will be NCL'd out by 2017.
    3) If I still feel like taking those annual trips
    4) If they haven't degraded the core benefits significantly

    If Rincon/Reno/Tahoe/Vegas all have had their games degraded to worse than full tier/full pay, then my career as a Seven Stars is probably going to be over.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  19. #39
    So here are the locations and the last time I played them. All games were $10/1 TC when I played.

    Harrah's Lake Tahoe

    Bonus Poker (50 Play) Quick Quads: 1 machine in High Limit carousel near Ultimate X video poker, 1 machine near Total Rewards on casino floor (11/2014)

    Jacks or Better (10 Play) Extra Draw Frenzy: 1 Machine in High Limit carousel (11/2014).

    I also played $2 single line 9/6 Jacks or Better DreamCard (99.56%) and Good Times Pay (99.54%), near entrance in high limit (11/2014).

    Harrah's Atlantic City

    Triple Double Bonus: 1 machine in High Limit near emergency exit (12/2014)

    Flamingo Las Vegas

    7/5 $1 Bonus Poker (10 Play) Ultimate X: Bank of All-Star uprights near entrance of High Limit (2/2015)

    ---

    Jacks or Better (10 Play) Extra Draw Frenzy, a 6 coin per hand game, remains the highest returning game in Lake Tahoe. However, the minimum denomination is $5, so $60 a pull.

    At Harvey's Lake Tahoe, I briefly played a few hands of the progressive 8/5 Bonus Poker $1 single line (99.42% with meter) machines, near the poker room (11/2014).
    Last edited by nerakil; 06-17-2015 at 06:28 AM.

  20. #40
    Dan, my strategy has always been predicated on the fact that I do not need a royal to win a session. I've had droughts just like anyone else, and their absence did not affect my win frequency. But my point in this discussion revolves around what Alan said about playing $25 short coin for anyone trying to get points. I see nothing wrong with that if CET is going to screw players who play lower demoninations.

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