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Thread: Let's list the CET full pay/full tier VP machines here

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by nerakil View Post
    Jacks or Better (10 Play) Extra Draw Frenzy, a 6 coin per hand game, remains the highest returning game in Lake Tahoe. However, the minimum denomination is $5, so $60 a pull.

    At Harvey's Lake Tahoe, I briefly played a few hands of the progressive 8/5 Bonus Poker $1 single line (99.42% with meter) machines, near the poker room (11/2014).
    Correction: $300 per pull on 10-Play. 30 TC earned per play.

  2. #42
    I can confirm this from the last 3 visits to The Rio (down Flamingo Road next to Caesar's Palace and over the bridge).

    The Rio has a few $1 8/5 Bonus Poker and $1 9/6 Double Double Bonus on the floor for the standard $10 coin in per tier credit. It is located in between the World Series of Poker wall and the American Grille restaurant, I think they are also next to the Wheel of Fortune progressive slot machines. I do not frequent Vegas myself and personally have no interest in pursuing Total Rewards (though I know its the best casino club program out there for high rollers).

    I wanted to add this for those that are thinking about playing this to improve status (Platinum in a day or Diamond in a day or 7* in 10 days). There are no custom speed settings on those machines, so roughly players can do 600-800 hands per hour.

    It will take a tremendous grind to do Diamond in a day (I found Dan's play at Harrah's Rincon earlier this year to be amazing). To do Diamond in a day, a player will need access to a $4000 bankroll for less than 10% risk of ruin and set aside at least 12 hours of their time (if one can find the time and energy to do other things after the grind, more power to them) to play 10,000 hands. Halve that effort for Platinum in a day, or if Diamond is person's sole ambition, they can do 2 Platinums in a day.

    I know 9/6 DDB has a return of 98.9808% with perfect play, which falls under the 99% requirement. DDB is undoubtedly the most popular video poker game and is on the same machine. Variance is much higher so a double bankroll of $8000 is needed to handle those swings (does not mean you'll lose all of it).

    If time is of essence, the most efficient and less time consuming way (also with least theoretical loss) in Vegas (for those that cannot make it to other CET locations), is to play 9/5 Jacks or Better at $5 denomination at the Rio. The 9/6 Jacks or Better is $25 per tier credit, thus 9/5 is the better choice even though you get shorted $25 for each flush (1 in about 94 hands).
    Last edited by alpax; 06-22-2015 at 10:35 AM.

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by alpax View Post
    I can confirm this from the last 3 visits to The Rio (down Flamingo Road next to Caesar's Palace and over the bridge).

    The Rio has a few $1 8/5 Bonus Poker and $1 9/6 Double Double Bonus on the floor for the standard $10 coin in per tier credit. It is located in between the World Series of Poker wall and the American Grille restaurant, I think they are also next to the Wheel of Fortune progressive slot machines. I do not frequent Vegas myself and personally have no interest in pursuing Total Rewards (though I know its the best casino club program out there for high rollers).

    I wanted to add this for those that are thinking about playing this to improve status (Platinum in a day or Diamond in a day or 7* in 10 days). There are no custom speed settings on those machines, so roughly players can do 600-800 hands per hour.

    It will take a tremendous grind to do Diamond in a day (I found Dan's play at Harrah's Rincon earlier this year to be amazing). To do Diamond in a day, a player will need access to a $4000 bankroll for less than 10% risk of ruin and set aside at least 12 hours of their time (if one can find the time and energy to do other things after the grind, more power to them) to play 10,000 hands. Halve that effort for Platinum in a day, or if Diamond is person's sole ambition, they can do 2 Platinums in a day.

    I know 9/6 DDB has a return of 98.9808% with perfect play, which falls under the 99% requirement. DDB is undoubtedly the most popular video poker game and is on the same machine. Variance is much higher so a double bankroll of $8000 is needed to handle those swings (does not mean you'll lose all of it).

    If time is of essence, the most efficient and less time consuming way (also with least theoretical loss) in Vegas (for those that cannot make it to other CET locations), is to play 9/5 Jacks or Better at $5 denomination at the Rio. The 9/6 Jacks or Better is $25 per tier credit, thus 9/5 is the better choice even though you get shorted $25 for each flush (1 in about 94 hands).
    I played that $1 8/5 BP machine one day. 11 hours of playtime (one 30 minute break). $57,000 coin in. Never doing that again....too much of a grind.

  4. #44
    RS--did you do that for "fun"; or for 7 star; or the pure misery that it sounds like that would be.

  5. #45
    For 7*, you would have to put yourself through this ten times a year. Much easier to do what nerakil is doing.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by regnis View Post
    RS--did you do that for "fun"; or for 7 star; or the pure misery that it sounds like that would be.
    I'll help you with that reg. Anyone who plays ANY vp machine or machines for 11 hours in one day has no clue what living life is all about. Anyone who plays for points, status, or slot card tier has no clue what playing video poker is all about. And anyone who claims to play 1200hph for 11.5 hours on the long-time $1 8/5 BP machines in the Rio has had lots of previous experiences talking about the size of fish caught on his fishing trips.

  7. #47
    Thanks for the insight Rob. Glad you can do math, too. What's 1200*11*5? Do you remember how much coin in I said I did?

    regnis, no I didn't do it to reach 7 stars nor DIAD. Although I am 7 stars now (nothing to do with the Rio play, though). I did it for other reasons, where I was under the impression it could have been a +EV play, but knowing it very well could be -EV......unfortunately it wasn't +EV.....but I did hit a royal and ended walking with a nice $3K [better than losing, that's for sure].

  8. #48
    Question for RS__ how could the multi line 8/5 Bonus game be an advantage play?

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Question for RS__ how could the multi line 8/5 Bonus game be an advantage play?
    The game I was referring to that RS__ played was a single line game. However they do have a 3/5/10 Play 8/5 Bonus for $50 coin in a tier credit, but its the same machine as the 40 straight flush / 10 full house / 6 flush DDB (99.96%).

    The free gift, free dinner, and the 5,000 RC generated make up for the $415-420 theoretical loss of 10,000 8/5 BP hands?

  10. #50
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Thanks for the insight Rob. Glad you can do math, too. What's 1200*11*5? Do you remember how much coin in I said I did?

    regnis, no I didn't do it to reach 7 stars nor DIAD. Although I am 7 stars now (nothing to do with the Rio play, though). I did it for other reasons, where I was under the impression it could have been a +EV play, but knowing it very well could be -EV......unfortunately it wasn't +EV.....but I did hit a royal and ended walking with a nice $3K [better than losing, that's for sure].
    It's close enuf for all your silly theories. And you must have forgotten about that half-hour potty break

    All's well that ends well. Of course you hit a royal again.

  11. #51
    alpax, my play at the Rincon isn't as amazing as you might think.

    As I was running the play on a 5-play machine which also charges you 2 more credits for the "Double Super Times Pay" feature, I was running $17.50 per spin, even though it was a 50c machine. I was earning 7 tier credits per 4 spins. This meant it only took me about 6 hours of play to run 5,000 base tiers through per day.

    I would not run $1 per credit single-play, as that's just $5 per spin, and requires a staggering 5000 of them just to earn 2500 base tiers, which is brutal. That would have taken me like 10 hours to do, as already mentioned here. And there's no way to get 5000 in a day, unless you are going to start near 6am and play 20 hours. No thanks.

    Even if you enjoy VP, that amount of play is excessive for most people.

    So basically if you don't have the bankroll to grind $2/credit or higher (single play) or the multi-play equivalent, then you shouldn't be attempting Seven Stars.

    Even Diamond would take two 10-hour days of play to earn at the $1/credit rate, and that's just not worth it in my opinion.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  12. #52
    Also, I wouldn't advise running these on sub-99% machines. In fact, even on low-99% machines (like 8-5 BP), you are likely to take a substantial loss on the way to Seven Stars, unless you luck into above-expectation royals.

    Don't expect to be rescued by freeplay. The freeplay is pretty lousy these days at CET, except for new Total Rewards accounts.

    Honestly I don't think the Seven Stars is worth it unless you can run it through at 99.25% or better. That's just my own personal baseline, though. The true value of Seven Stars is what each individual gets out of it.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  13. #53
    BTW, by my final day of play at the Rincon, my right wrist was hurting badly. I actually developed video poker carpal tunnel!

    I had to switch to my left hand for my final 2 1/2 hours of play!

    That's when I knew I had been running too many hours within a short period of time!

    Fortunately my wrist rapidly improved, and I couldn't feel it anymore two days later.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  14. #54
    Thanks, Dan. That is a pretty succinct summary of what is required for Diamond in a Day on up, and it is appreciated. I don't know anybody who has all of the current data and is willing to share as you are.

  15. #55
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    alpax, my play at the Rincon isn't as amazing as you might think.

    As I was running the play on a 5-play machine which also charges you 2 more credits for the "Double Super Times Pay" feature, I was running $17.50 per spin, even though it was a 50c machine. I was earning 7 tier credits per 4 spins. This meant it only took me about 6 hours of play to run 5,000 base tiers through per day.

    I would not run $1 per credit single-play, as that's just $5 per spin, and requires a staggering 5000 of them just to earn 2500 base tiers, which is brutal. That would have taken me like 10 hours to do, as already mentioned here. And there's no way to get 5000 in a day, unless you are going to start near 6am and play 20 hours. No thanks.

    Even if you enjoy VP, that amount of play is excessive for most people.

    So basically if you don't have the bankroll to grind $2/credit or higher (single play) or the multi-play equivalent, then you shouldn't be attempting Seven Stars.

    Even Diamond would take two 10-hour days of play to earn at the $1/credit rate, and that's just not worth it in my opinion.
    I felt the more impressive part was that you repeated the Double STP play for 5 straight days rather than the one session. Double STP increases the variance (a.k.a. the swings) to any game significantly even though it increases the expected return by 0.5%, multi-hand games require the bankroll to get it done too. I do not have high expectations as I am a low roller compared to most people at the casino, so it is impressive to me.

    I've been following these forums for sometime and I was under the impression that 8-5 Bonus Poker is the preferred game by Alan and others. That is reason I've brought up the suggestion to begin with. I knew it was a grind so I included a disclaimer since I was trying to be realistic. I would never expect 7* membership to cost next to nothing to get into, though 10 Diamond in a Day session is the most efficient method. It is the top of the line of all casino clubs, CET should not need to give it away like candy even though the benefits were cut.

    I do have to correct what I've stated earlier. I ran through the bankroll simulation on the Video Poker for Winners software (runs many simulations) of 10,000 8/5 Bonus Poker hands with a starting bankroll of $4000. The chance of ruin is about 1%, not 10%, meaning you will not make it to 10000 hands played with $4000. This situation should be good for those that are content with being in Diamond.

    To finish off the analysis of the play at The Rio (for Diamond in a Day play)



    The screenshot does not cover the size of each bar on the graph, I manually hovered over the bars.

    Bonus Poker has a house edge of 100 - 99.166 = 0.834%. So 0.834% of $50,000 coin in = $417 loss.

    You have a 30% chance of being up after 10,000 hands (played with perfect strategy, meaning the basic strategy and mastering all of the penalty situations).
    About 6% chance you will do better than expected return, but still lose ($3583 - $3999)
    The rest of the 64% chance, you will do worse than expected return.

    Video Poker is not expected to be evaluated over one 10,000 hands play session, it will be a continuous run.

    Yes, to rack up coin-in on short order, experienced players believe multi-hand games is the way to go.

    I know this thread is about creating a guide to mimizing the losses to achieve status. At CET properties, I heard each game is rated a theoretical loss. The 10 play Deuces Wild at Harrah's New Orleans could theoretically be the most cost efficient way to get to Diamond and even 7*, however those machines have a rating of NO theoretical loss. The people who play it without combing their play with a theoretical loss game will not receive any mailers/bounceback offers. There is more than just the theoretical return to consider.

    I suggested 9/6 DDB for those that want to gamble. DDB has high variance factor, which can signify how much actual results can deviate from the mean/average from a sample size. Though 9/6 DDB is 98.9808% playing by the book, but after 250,000 hands, there is a 33% you will be in the profit despite a 1% edge, but the bell curve also evens out the other way as well. A 33-38% chance the player loses 2% of their play on a 1% edge game.
    Last edited by alpax; 06-22-2015 at 09:40 PM.

  16. #56
    Any 40/10/6 DDB at any Caesar's properties?

  17. #57
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Any 40/10/6 DDB at any Caesar's properties?
    The Rio has 3 / 5 / 10 multi hand play at $50 coin in per tier credit

  18. #58
    Don't care about tier credits. My name is toast with CET. I play anonymously.

  19. #59
    Then why's it matter if it's CET if you don't use a card?

  20. #60
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Then why's it matter if it's CET if you don't use a card?
    Just curious.

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