Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 62

Thread: Let's list the CET full pay/full tier VP machines here

  1. #1
    By "full pay/full tier", I mean the following must be true:

    - Game must have a theoretical return of 99.00% or higher

    - Game must have a demonimation of $1-$5 per credit, or the ability to play multiple hands to bring it up to the equivalent of $1 per credit (such as 5-play 25c/credit).

    - Game must award one tier credit per $10 wagered

    The list will include all forms of VP. This includes games like Ultimate X or Double Super Times Pay.

    Here is what I know remains, though there are probably ones I've missed (for example, I seem to recall someone mentioning a 99.40% Ultimate X game at Flamingo)....

    Harrah's Lake Tahoe: 9/6 Jacks or Better (99.54%), both 3/5 play for $1/credit and 50-play for 25c/50c/$1 per credit
    Harrah's Reno: 9/6 Jacks or Better (1-play) at $1/credit (though this will take you a LONG time -- about 10 hours to earn 2500)
    Harvey's Lake Tahoe: 9/6 Jacks or Better 1-play for $5/credit

    Harrah's New Orleans: "Not So Ugly Ducks" Deuces Wild (99.73%) 3/5/10 play for $1/credit
    Harrah's New Orleans: 9/6 Jacks or Better 3/5/10 play for $1/credit

    Harrah's Rincon/Resort SoCal: Bonus Poker Ace$ (99.40%) (1-play) $5 per credit
    Harrah's Rincon/Resort SoCal: Bonus Poker Aces and Faces (99.26%) (1-play) $5 per credit
    Harrah's Rincon/Resort SoCal: Bonus Poker (99.17%) (1-play) 25c/50c/$1/$2/$5 per credit

    Please add to this.

    Please do NOT add games of $10/credit or more, as that is outside of most people's bankrolls.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #2
    Dan what about playing one coin on $25 vp machines at Caesars. You will find full pay with $10 per tier point. Your loss would only be on a royal.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Dan what about playing one coin on $25 vp machines at Caesars. You will find full pay with $10 per tier point. Your loss would only be on a royal.
    No. That's brutal because it will not be full pay. With the severe reduction of the royal (by a factor of 5), a 99.54% JoB machine would become a 97.94% JoB machine. Ouch.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    No. That's brutal because it will not be full pay. With the severe reduction of the royal (by a factor of 5), a 99.54% JoB machine would become a 97.94% JoB machine. Ouch.
    Okay... but what about those one hundred or so sessions when you don't get a royal?

  5. #5
    Bossier City Horseshoe has one machine you can play $1 up to $25 single game featuring a 5000 coin royal which I have never hit BTW. The BP is 8/5 and the DDB is 9/6. There are some other games on it but those are the only ones that I play.

    They also have a circle of triple play $5 machines that have 9/6 JOB, 8/5 BP, and 9/6 DDB. These machines and the 5000 credit royal machine are located in the HLR.

  6. #6
    Dan, the mindset that a game is "not playable" on a visit because of 97% vs. 99%, especially if the theoretical reduction is only due to the royal, is state-of-mind absurd. And it's why most people who play video poker really do not know what they're doing, and why. Broken record time from this level to that one.

  7. #7
    It seems to me that Dan is looking for full pay games where $10 coin in earns one tier credit and one reward credit -- so he can maximize comps and tier score. In that case, the pay for a royal is secondary especially since a royal is a 1/42000 event for many games.

    If you want to maximize your tier score and reward credits at $10 per point in Vegas then there is nothing wrong with going into the Palace Court slots area and playing one coin on a $25 8/5 Bonus or $25 9/6 Jacks machine. You'll get your 7 stars and your RCs.

    To get the maximum of 5,000 earned tier points in a day, at a $25 game with one coin in, you would play 2,000 hands. That would also earn you 10,000 bonus tier points for a total of 15,000 tier points in a day.

    Do that for 10 days and you score 7 Stars with 20,000 hands played. That's less than 1/2 of a "royal cycle" so why worry about what you would "lose" if you hit a royal? You're not likely to hit one -- so go ahead and stick to your plan to get your 7 Stars at the lowest possible cost.

  8. #8
    But Alan, AP's have talked themselves into believing that any reduction in theoretical long-term "edge" even when playing just one hand, is detrimental to the cause. As silly as that is, that's why I call their confusing logic nothing more than a state of mind. Something fully supported by the casinos everywhere by the way, with the array of non-stop over 100% theoretical "opportunities" they offer vp players on a daily basis.

  9. #9
    Rob both Jason and I know you and share your belief about "full house pays." We've both played long sessions and never got a full house. Hitting a full house at 8/5 or 7/5 Bonus (or Aces and Faces) never decided whether or not we were going to have a winning session. What determines a winning session is hitting quads and -- believe it or not -- how many two-pair we get.

    You can't reasonably play video poker for royals. What will make you a winner is managing your money so you know when it's time to walk.

  10. #10
    All I'll say is that I've gotten a royal on my third hand after sitting down. The fastest one I've ever gotten. You just never know what will happen.

  11. #11
    Like Dan, I do not wish to play games that make you play $50 through to earn 1 tier credit and assuming there is no monkey business in the programming of the video poker machines it is nice to get an extra credit each time you get a full house or a flush. Over a period of a few hours of play the difference can add up. Royals and 4oak's are still far more important. Alan, the strategy you outline above is exactly what Dan did to hit 7 star earlier this year.

    I think his motive for starting this thread is because there really are not that many places anymore at CET where you have an opportunity to play VP machines with EV paybacks in excess of 99%. Before they put the new machines in at Bossier City Horseshoe, there were 99%+ machines quarter and higher everywhere there. I am surprised that Tahoe so far has made no downgrades since the changeover to the new machines. Even the quarter BP and the Mountain Bar at Harvey's are still 8/5 which has an EV of 99.17%.

    When we were in Atlantic City last month the quarter 9/6 machines at Caesar's had been changed to $50 per tier credit and the quarter progressive triple play 8/5 BP machines at Bally's had been changed to $25 per tier credit. The screws continue to tighten on VP players at CET all around the country with the exception of Lake Tahoe for some reason.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by seemoreroyals View Post
    ...The screws continue to tighten on VP players at CET all around the country with the exception of Lake Tahoe for some reason.
    This is the case at almost all casinos, not just CET. Caesar's Windsor has full pay Pick Em that is $80 per tier credit. Sure that's Canadian but probably not much difference. And no, I've never been there not played it.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    This is the case at almost all casinos, not just CET. Caesar's Windsor has full pay Pick Em that is $80 per tier credit. Sure that's Canadian but probably not much difference. And no, I've never been there not played it.
    When we were at Windsor a couple of years ago on one of our 7 star trips the best pay tables they had even back then were 8/5 JOB and 8/5 DDB. I enjoyed the property and surrounding area but did not gamble much. They had a nice DL and we were able to get comp tickets to see Lionel Ritchie in concert who was very good BTW. We did not get any decent offers afterwards so we have not been back.

  14. #14
    I already accept the fact that my days of "Seven Stars" could end at any time. I already made 7 Stars for 2015 so it will continue in 2016 also. But so what? All that gets me is "line cutting."

    You don't have to be 7 Stars to be a smart gambler or to have a great time when you go to Vegas. And I am not one who lives or breathes by everything Caesars has to offer. I don't care about cruises, and I have no interest in unlimited hotel stays.

  15. #15
    There's a reason I'm sure you all know why the let the higher tier players in line first. They want you back at the games as fast as possible losing more and more money. I'd rather wait longer if that's the case.

  16. #16
    Players cards are nothing more than a data mining tool for casinos.

  17. #17
    If you're going to play more than 20,000 hands in your lifetime, it makes no sense to take a hit of more than one percent with less than max coins in. There's no way around it. I know, I know, Rob is immune to such vagaries. God, however, is not in my corner, and I'm not blessed by Allah or Mephistopheles, either. So as a mere mortal, I pay attention to such things.

    If you're looking for reasonable video poker and you're 50 or more years of age, I suggest Boyd's various properties with a dose of Stations. You can get consistent multi-point days, usually Mon-Wed, with different properties assigning different days. The multi-points push you into the gray area of comps/free buffets/discounted movies/free vp tournaments combined with 99% games to create a pseudo-positive EV.

    It may almost be time to assign Seven Stars aspirations to the scrap heap. The dominant model in Las Vegas has failed. As Alan said, you get to cut lines. Might be time to suck it up and, if you want to be close to the Rio for WSOP, consider the Extended Stay across the street or Budget Suites/Emerald Suites up on Trop. If you rack up the Boyd rating, Gold Coast on weekdays might provide quite a few comped rooms.
    Last edited by redietz; 06-16-2015 at 09:29 AM.

  18. #18
    redietz is right -- It absolutely is time to give Seven Stars a low priority -- it's not what it used to be, the benefits aren't there, the offers aren't there either. Even a stay at Caesars isn't what it used to be -- it's no longer a luxury hotel with luxury service.

  19. #19
    Regarding the WSOP, I figure if you need 30-45 days of comped rooms to handle it, you should be able to book Extended Stay across the street well in advance and try to lock in a reasonable rate of $70-$80 a night. The Budget Suites up on Trop would be a step down, but not horrendous, and would cost a third as much. There are other options -- time share rentals -- further west on Trop a few blocks that would be reasonable, also.

    I really like working out of the Rio rooms, and I've never really figured out the reason why. It's a good working layout for me. But I wouldn't do Seven Stars if I were a WSOP player unless an opportunity like Dan managed this last year presented itself.

  20. #20
    Actually Dan didn't have the greatest deal. "Kilgore" claimed to have non-stop stays at Caesars properties. Dan was forced to leave town.

    I know WSOP players who rent houses and condos during the tournaments. They aren't 7 Stars. They don't play anything but poker.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •