Jerry Yang back at WSOP

[redietz]

It's not hard to cheat in a poker tournament. I mean, many of the small local tournaments are populated by dealers who know each other and team up a bit to damage the outsiders. Any verbal comment could be a cue, like "Any mention of family in the first half hour means AA; any sports mention in the second half hour means AA." Or one can stack, unstack and handle chips while "thinking" in a way that communicates a la Morse code exactly what you have. People don't always handle chips in a random fashion. Or one can employ "horses" to do the best they can, then dump chips to you later in the tournament. The melodramatic ESPN series "Tilt" was over the top, but almost everything in that show has been employed at one time or another.

[Alan Mendelson]

That kind of collusion involves players at the same table. And how do you arrange that?

[redietz]

In little LV tournaments, that's not too tough, as you can request sitting at a table with your buds or sitting at a table not with your buds to start the tournament. In bigger tournaments, you can just start off with a formidable Team Mendelson, or you make arrangements as the tournament unfolds.

Maximum collusion value would take place if/when one gets to a final table or two, so arrangements could be tendered when you reach that point. It makes that loooong wait for the Main Event final table even more interesting.

[Alan Mendelson]

I have never been in a poker tournament where you can request sitting with anyone. Every poker tournament I've ever played in involved random seating and even when tables are "broken" the assignment to a new table is also random.

If there were a tournament that allowed the possibility of that kind of collusion I just wouldn't play.

[redietz]

Most of the baby tournaments in LV with less than a $100 buy in will accommodate tourists who either do or don't want to sit at the same tables. When a handful of touristes walk up to the sign-in, the last thing the poker room manager wants to do is say no and have them walk away.

Even Binions, which presumably should know better, has let people do it.

Alan, you seem shocked, shocked that cheating goes on at poker tables, yet you play a lot of poker. At the table, do you wear a Captain Renault hat instead of a visor?

[jbjb]

The largest percentage of cheating going on in a casino is at the poker tables.

[Rob.Singer]

Alan wants proof presented in a court of law--and then a verdict arrived at supporting it--that any casino has any kind of cheating going on anywhere, whatsoever, before he'll accept it.

[Alan Mendelson]

Well, I guess I don't play in any baby tournaments, redietz, because I've never seen a tournament where you get to choose your seat. Yes, I've played in baby tournaments where there were only two or three tables -- at Bally's and Paris and yes, at Caesars, too. NEVER have I seen anything that allowed players to choose seats.

Now... cash games are different. I've played at cash games where husband/wife were at the table, and Jason and I have played at the same cash game. But there are also less stringent rules in cash games. For example, you can show your cards -- and how's that for intimidating players and for possible collusion? The only rule I know of regarding showing cards is this: show one, show all. Of course that doesn't include being a sloppy "looker" at your own cards and not shielding them when your "partner" is sitting next to you.

Are you sure redietz you are not confusing "tournaments" with cash games?

[redietz]

If I wasn't sure, I wouldn't have written it. I've been in at least four tournaments in Las Vegas where the sign-up person allowed us to either sit at the same table or different tables, depending on preference.

You seem to have a higher tolerance for collusion during cash games than in tournaments, yet in my mind collusion in cash games is the greater evil. Why do you feel cash games' oversight should be or is less stringent than tournament oversight?

I've seen the husband/wife trickeration (to borrow a Don King phrase) in feeder tournaments to Poker Tour events in Tunica. It wasn't terribly subtle, and it allows you to understand that any two (or three or more) people can join forces at any time at a poker table to collude.

[jbjb]

I wondered what had happened to Jerry Yang. He won the Main Event of the 2007 WSOP and won his seat through play at Pechanga. He had won a $225 satellite event at Pechanga. He lived in Temecula at the time.

I hadn't seen his name for years until today. He busted out on day #1 of this year's WSOP Main Event.

To get your thread back on track, here's Jerry's Hendon Mob ranking...

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=88377

[Alan Mendelson]

Redietz I would never play in a tournament where you can choose your own seats and you shouldn't either.

I am aware of the problems at cash games but that doesn't mean I like it.

[Alan Mendelson]

Jbjb thanks for that link and for the list of tournaments he's played in.

[jbjb]

Certainly. I'm certain there are other smaller tournaments he's played in as well. Not everybody wants to be in the limelight.

[Count Room]

As soon as my book publisher, who has been a high stakes poker player for years and regularly writes a column about it, showed me how Daniel Negraneu was worth absolutely nothing but his perception was, I understood what an enormous waste of time it was to be a so-called "poker pro"....as so many of these total losers like to refer to themselves as.

The only ones making a consistent profit off of live poker and the fascination that is WSOP and related live events, are the casinos, the advertisers, and the people out there like me who get a huge kick out of laughing at all of them.

As an aside to what you posted, Rob, Daniel Negreanu just won $526,000 from the Main Event this year. Moreover, it has been shown that in the last few years Daniel has shown a large profit from tournament poker overall.

Even without endorsements and the celebrity image, I would have to guess Negreanu would still be making a healthy living from raw tournament poker results alone.

[jbjb]

Daniel doesn't pay a dime to play these tournaments. Pokerstars does and gets a cut of any winnings.

[Count Room]

Daniel doesn't pay a dime to play these tournaments. Pokerstars does and gets a cut of any winnings.

That's not the point I'm trying to explain: Negreanu has shown over the past several years all the tournament winnings minus the buy-ins on a spreadsheet for the public to see.

The spreadsheets have shown a healthy profit most years even if Daniel had hypothetically paid his own buy-ins.

[Rob.Singer]

I just called my contact on LV poker. The guy is a self-marketing genius as well as a degenerate gambler. All you see and read about is when he wins in sponsored toyrbaments or what he says he does in tournaments. He plays far more poker than we know about. She won $90k from him just two months ago, so I would believe he is not quite what he seems.

[jbjb]

I've watch him dump thousands on PStars.