Mlife

[Alan Mendelson]

Then we have tipping as a cost of doing business?

I'm shaking my head in disbelief. Do you really take things so literally?

Obviously you are not a tables game player and this is going way over your head.

[jbjb]

I'm not for or against tipping but I can assure you this, dealers will not help you win. Most dealers have no clue about the games themselves. You craps players know this just by listening to them hawk center bets all day long. And any dealer that "helps", if you get my drift, you win is collusion and a felony.

[Alan Mendelson]

In craps dealers cannot help you win nor can they make you lose as only the players throw the dice. What the dealers can do is look out for you when you make a mistake with your betting such as miss a bet. Your tips thanks them for that. You are not obligated to tip when you lose or when you win but a tip here and there can do wonders. Anyone ever had a one roll bet stay up mysteriously?

[BYLee291]

I would agree that the casino's primary goal is to make money, and they make plenty of it from people who play the various high house advantage games all over the floor. My understanding is the games with the lowest house edge are blackjack, craps, baccarat, and video poker, provided the games are played to take advantage of the low house edge. Casinos get plenty of people who gamble without knowing any of the odds, and they make loads money off of them. People split tens in blackjack, put tons of money on center proposition craps bets, etc. The other side is, if too few people won, fewer people would go to casinos. The people who win are most likely the ones who actually understand the mathematics of the games, and I think it is in the casino's interest to keep those players coming back as examples of potential winners, and I think a lot of dealers appreciate players who know what they're doing. After all, the number of people who actually understand the games is way smaller than the number of casual vacation gamblers who are just looking to maybe get lucky and have a few free drinks. I would ask everyone how many times are you at a table where many of the people around you are playing the field or placing hop bets. The ones playing the hop bets are supposed to be the knowledgeable ones, because they know how to call a hop bet is.

[jbjb]

..What the dealers can do is look out for you when you make a mistake with your betting such as miss a bet...

Nonsense. A missed bet is less $$$ exposed to the house edge therefore more $$$ in your pocket. The more bets you make in a shorter period of time with a house edge, the faster you lose. Just like in VP, blackjack or any other game. Now, if you have the edge over the casino, now it's a different story.

[Alan Mendelson]

Silly. The dealers don't look for your missed bets when they lose. They pay the missed bets when they win. You don't play much craps jbjb?

[redietz]

I'm curious as to whether people think tipping window clerks after placing or winning sports bets makes any sense or is something you would do.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous. So in this instance, I'm much closer to Rob than to the other posters here. Thirty years ago, almost nobody tipped sports clerks.

Also, in "baby" LV poker tournaments (under $100 entrance fee), I'll tip $10 or something if I actually win the tourney, but that's about it.

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't make sports bets so I can't comment on what is appropriate and what is not. My initial reaction is no tipping to clerks unless the win was something huge and you wanted to throw some money around. Once, and only once, when I had a $50,000+ win at Caesars and the cage people had to write checks and walked me in and out of the safe deposit room (this is back in the old days when there was a safe deposit room) I gave a $100 tip to the cage crew.

Regarding the poker tournament tipping -- it all depends on the amount of the win. If indeed it is a baby tournament and the win is small a $10 tip might actually be appropriate. You'd have to tell us how much your first place money was? I think a poker tournament tip is about 3%. So if you won $500 as first place in a baby tournament a tip of $15 would be good and there is actually nothing wrong with $10 if the casino had a larger deduction from the tournament buy-in for the dealers. And that's important to remember -- some tournament entry fees now have a large line item amount for the dealers which is why some pros have stopped all tipping at tournaments.

What happened with poker tournaments and built in tips is like what happened with room service at Caesars -- the tip is now built into the check, so you don't tip anything extra.

[Luckylisa]

Craps dealers definitely look out for me. I play the same way all the time. Dealers will remind me to make my bets. I agree that more then a few times, my bets gave been left up, when they should have come down. I play always play a pass line bet with full odds. If I have forgotten to make my odds bet and the point has hit, the dealer will tell me to drop my bet and I'm paid on my odds. I always have dealers in the game in some way. I tip the dealers because they make the game for me. I've also been waved over to a game as I was walking by......the dealers encouraging me to play since the table was hot.
I'm not talking about one random dealer. I play a lot of craps and I'm in Vegas every 4-8 weeks. I know most of the dealers/floor people across all 3 shifts at a couple of properties. For me, it's the dealers that drive where I stay.

[Rob.Singer]

I'm shaking my head in disbelief. Do you really take things so literally?

Obviously you are not a tables game player and this is going way over your head.

Better over mine than straight thru yours Alan. But just as with ANY issue that has a common sense conclusion, no matter how many times and how often you're presented with the golden opportunity to wise up, your true believer blockade keeps kicking in.

Maybe that's a good reason I've been married once....and for nearly 38 years?? Gotta have something to do with sense and sensibility, right?

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob I am sure your sense and sensibility have everything to do with you being married once and for nearly 38 years. Remember, I know you. You're a lucky man to have kept the same wife this long. A very lucky man.

But back to table games and tipping: you don't get it and you're not a table games player.

Let me summarize the key points:

1. No one expects you to tip when you win or lose.
2. There is certainly no expectation that you will ever tip if you lose.
3. When a dealer or dealers do something for you that help you win (such as allow a post bet which is common in craps) a token of appreciation can go a long way.

Rob -- has a video poker machine ever given you a second chance when you forgot to hold a particular card, or you made a mistake about holding a card? Of course not. Well, that's pretty much what we are talking about here with dealers -- giving players a second chance.

In video poker you don't get a second chance.

And stay married Rob... you won't have a second chance there either. I know you.

[Rob.Singer]

And yet Alan, you allow yourself to be fooled into tipping when you hit handpays on the vp machines....yes, they sure are a different animal.

I don't know what a "post" bet is, but if it's legal then so what?

I think you're beginning to see why I believe referencing one's single, long term marriage is applicable to many other things in life, including gambling. A motivated and committed person never gets involved in something unless they intend to succeed and do everything in their power to succeed. That's the type of person I am. I married in my late 20's because of it. I chose my two very different working careers because of it. And I chose to become a vp pro because of it. The same can be said of my good health all these years--in my early 20's I intended that I be physically capable late into life, and just like everything else I've set out to do, I've experienced success.

Luck? It's present in everything we do. Experience bad luck, and what I do is bounce back with the goal of doing more and doing it better than I originally set out to do. The good luck, however, is frequently misread by most people. You don't simply wait for it to come around, you allow more opportunity for it to appear, then when it does you take maximum advantage of what you were presented with. So for sure, luck has had something to do with my successful marriage. But it's the BAD luck that's defined it.

[jbjb]

I don't think a post bet is legal, therefore they are cheating.

I and a bunch of others may disagree about Robs VP strategy, but I do agree on a lot of other points he makes about casinos and gambling in general.

[Alan Mendelson]

Post betting is a bet made after the result is known.

[Alan Mendelson]

And yet Alan, you allow yourself to be fooled into tipping when you hit handpays on the vp machines....

Why do you say "fooled into tipping"? I know exactly what I am doing when I tip.

I don't know what a "post" bet is, but if it's legal then so what?

A post bet is a bet made after the result is known. If you did it without the permission of the casino it would be cheating. But in the examples given here by several craps players, the casino (crew) is allowing it and I think that's significant, don't you?

Now, regarding your comment about marriage, since you are an expert on marriage:

A motivated and committed person never gets involved in something unless they intend to succeed and do everything in their power to succeed.

Yes, Rob. It's very important to stand your ground... even when your feet are firmly planted in quicksand.

[jbjb]

It's called "past-posting", and whether the crew and pit allows it or not, it's a cheating felony in all states.

[Alan Mendelson]

It's called "past-posting", and whether the crew and pit allows it or not, it's a cheating felony in all states.

How can it be cheating if the casino crew allows it? And especially after it is discussed with the floor person?

[jbjb]

No bet, in any state in this country is allowed after the results are known. You should know this.

[redietz]

No bet, in any state in this country is allowed after the results are known. You should know this.

And who is going to enforce that? The Nevada Gaming Commission? The Pinkertons? Sherlock Holmes?

I hate to echo Rob, but this is another theory versus reality quote.

[Alan Mendelson]

No bet, in any state in this country is allowed after the results are known. You should know this.

Would you like to poll the forums on this website and the Wizard's site to find out how many times dealers have allowed players to throw their chips down on the table when they missed a regular bet and were paid AFTER the results were known? It's had to happen with me a dozen times.