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Thread: Mlife

  1. #61
    If it only happened to me once each time I was in Vegas (and therefore not including other casinos) we would be talking hundreds of times. Legal or not is immaterial. If you have a good rapport with the dealers and/or pit, they will usually pay you as if you made the bet if you make the bet every time and simply forget one time, particularly if there was a distraction (cocktail waitress, wife, new player disruption).

  2. #62
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Would you like to poll the forums on this website and the Wizard's site to find out how many times dealers have allowed players to throw their chips down on the table when they missed a regular bet and were paid AFTER the results were known? It's had to happen with me a dozen times.
    It's nice you admit to a felony.

  3. #63
    NRS 465.070  Fraudulent acts.  It is unlawful for any person:
    5.  To place or increase a bet after acquiring knowledge of the outcome of the game or other event which is the subject of the bet, including past-posting and pressing bets

    NRS 465.088  Penalties for violation of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive.
    1.  A person who violates any provision of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive, is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished:

  4. #64
    Come and arrest me, and I can identify the dealers and floor staff at Caesars Palace. We can have a block party in prison.

    jbjb have you ever played in a real casino? Or you just talk theory?

  5. #65
    These laws apply to players who past post bets in order to defraud the casino. I've been allowed several times to drop odds behind a line bet after a point was hit because I was distracted by something. The dealer asks the floor person, the floor person says drop the odds, and they pay me. There are also times when center bets get mixed up and someone insists they had a hardway bet that can't be found. If the player is courteous, the stickperson confirms that the player had a bet, very often, the floor person will say pay it. Dealers have been known to put a bet in the wrong box. A sign at the table says "no call bets," but I forgot to place a bet. I tell the dealer while the shooter has the dice "$25 odds" or "$12 six" and the dealer will say "bet." If the person has been obnoxious, they'll say "No bet." These things are all done in front of the cameras and the casino personnel, so there is no attempt to defraud. And if I had lost any of those bets, I would have handed over the chips. If I dropped odds behind the bet without asking, then that might be seen as an attempt to defraud, although it could also be lack of knowledge of the rules. Just by being at the table, we're playing against the house edge, but a dealer reminding a player to place a odds bet is actually helping the player, even though the odds on the point are still in the casino's favor. Ultimately, the casino wins so much over the long run, it doesn't pay to alienate a polite player by being hard nosed about what amounts to a small amount to the casino. And yes, I believe tipping and not being obnoxious have gotten me a good share of these "bending of the house rules."
    Last edited by BYLee291; 07-22-2015 at 09:19 PM.

  6. #66
    Next we'll hear about how Caesar's allows you to play a few hundred free "warm-up" hands of vp where they'll pay you for any winners out of the kindness of their hearts....but only to those who tip handpays, of course. .

    Such silly stuff.

  7. #67
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Next we'll hear about how Caesar's allows you to play a few hundred free "warm-up" hands of vp where they'll pay you for any winners out of the kindness of their hearts....but only to those who tip handpays, of course. .

    Such silly stuff.
    Yes, you do troll.

  8. #68
    Is there a reason for being so hard-nosed? my wife used to be in the service industry so she tips quite generously. I tip too, especially if I'm winning. Most stickmen and dealers are rooting for you and are really nice. When I step into the casino, I KNOW I have a -EV so I adjust mentally--to me it's the price of entertainment and I am ok with that, especially when I only go once or twice a year.

  9. #69
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    NRS 465.070  Fraudulent acts.  It is unlawful for any person:
    5.  To place or increase a bet after acquiring knowledge of the outcome of the game or other event which is the subject of the bet, including past-posting and pressing bets

    NRS 465.088  Penalties for violation of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive.
    1.  A person who violates any provision of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive, is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished:
    I don't know you JBJB so you may be the top criminal lawyer in America. However, fraud is a "specific intent" crime. This requires a person taking an action (the fraudulent act) but also requires the specific intent-i.e. the mindset to defraud. That mindset is not present where one forgets to make a bet that they have made hour after hour and the casino employee directs you to place the bet after the fact or just pays you as if you had made the bet. You had no "intent to defraud" and no crime was committed.

    On the other hand, if you never make hard way bets and now the shooter throws a hard 10 and you claim "I had a $25 hard 10"--that is fraud.

    So Alan---you can stop looking over your shoulder and wearing the cap and dark glasses. You haven't committed a fraud and the dice police aren't coming to get you. But you better return those towels and robes.

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by whodat View Post
    Is there a reason for being so hard-nosed? my wife used to be in the service industry so she tips quite generously. I tip too, especially if I'm winning. Most stickmen and dealers are rooting for you and are really nice. When I step into the casino, I KNOW I have a -EV so I adjust mentally--to me it's the price of entertainment and I am ok with that, especially when I only go once or twice a year.
    That's great--let former service industry employees hand it over to current service industry employees for working table games. But don't be concerned at all about the minimum wage Wal-Mart clerk or the bank clerk or the zit-faced Burger King kid. Nope--they don't get your tips because you're not gonna have to be facing them long enuf to be intimidated into handing them over some of your money for doing absolutely nothing out of the ordinary for you. The "cost of entertainment"? Wow.

    It is truly beyond belief.

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    NRS 465.070  Fraudulent acts.  It is unlawful for any person:
    5.  To place or increase a bet after acquiring knowledge of the outcome of the game or other event which is the subject of the bet, including past-posting and pressing bets

    NRS 465.088  Penalties for violation of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive.
    1.  A person who violates any provision of NRS 465.070 to 465.085, inclusive, is guilty of a category B felony and shall be punished:
    Jbjb, we can read. Now again I ask, who's going to enforce this? The Nevada Gaming Commission? Dudley Do-Right? You?

  12. #72
    Do you tip for guided fishing trips? waiters at the restaurant? bellhops? taxis? manicure/pedicure? massages? haircuts? and the list goes on... Are they not part of the service industry? Do you not tip them also? If you don't, I hope I never have to perform any service for you.

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by whodat View Post
    Do you tip for guided fishing trips? waiters at the restaurant? bellhops? taxis? manicure/pedicure? massages? haircuts? and the list goes on... Are they not part of the service industry? Do you not tip them also? If you don't, I hope I never have to perform any service for you.
    Of course I tip waiters etc. Casino employees other than waiters, bartenders and valets never deserve tips. Ever. Only easily intimidated souls hand them out to dealers, floor people on machine handpays, cashiers or those stupid hosts.

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Of course I tip waiters etc. Casino employees other than waiters, bartenders and valets never deserve tips. Ever. Only easily intimidated souls hand them out to dealers, floor people on machine handpays, cashiers or those stupid hosts.
    Explain this to me so I fully understand: exactly WHY do you not tip slot floor people who give you a handpay? Give me the exact reason and spell it out so I fully understand your reasoning? The reason why I ask is that if you tip car valets who bring you your car, why aren't you tipping slot floor people who are bringing you your money? And to the best of my knowledge, both are paid just above minimum wage.

  15. #75
    A valet brings me my car and they get a tip. I give nothing to the person who hand pays me. The difference is I requested a specific service from the valet. The people who bring me handpays? They only come if I'm not losing and sometimes when I am. I do not request a service from them, like valet, getting a drink or getting a meal. They appear because that's a casino policy. And like I've said here a thousand times, if they came by and gave me tips when playing because I was there possibly helping their establishment thrive just by providing the service of being there, then the courtesy would go both ways.

    It's a perverted practice that weak gamblers perpetuate, and the great majority of the time they act thru intimidation. Most people cannot stomach having to face these floor people again after knowing they absolutely expected a tip and got nothing while just saying thank you instead. And in the sometimes several minutes you do have to face them on your first hand pay, it can seem like an eternity to a weak person who wonders what the floor stiffs will think of him when they are not going to leave a tip. That was me up until 1996. It all has to do with whether or not you make up your mind about being intimidated or not. People who cover that up by claiming "they're my friends away from home" or "they count on tips for a decent income" or the even more pathetic "it makes me feel good knowing I'm helping these people out" have no clue on how to operate in a casino environment.

  16. #76
    They don't appear because of casino policy, Rob. They appear because federal law says you have to sign a W2G.

    I still don't understand why you would tip a valet but not the floor people who provide another valuable service for you?

    Give me another reason for not tipping them.

  17. #77
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    They don't appear because of casino policy, Rob. They appear because federal law says you have to sign a W2G.

    I still don't understand why you would tip a valet but not the floor people who provide another valuable service for you?

    Give me another reason for not tipping them.
    You have that true believer blockade up once again. If you weren't so trapped by Caesar's all these years you'd have known that there are many casinos who hand pay on jackpots of $400 & up. And whether it's a casino policy or an IRS policy, it is not a service that I've asked for. You also conveniently ignored what I said about casino floor people not dropping by to tip players for the "valuable service" we are providing to them.

    There are no other reasons for not tipping floor people on handpays. Weak people do it and I am not one of them.

  18. #78
    I admit it, I'm weak. When I'm winning, I place piggyback bets for the dealers, and sometimes, I even bump them up if it's a long roll. When the dealers remind me to take odds, or give me a couple of extra seconds to decide what I want to do with my bets, or tell me whether the table has been hot or cold when I walk up to it, they may be trying to scam me. BUT, as counterintuitive as it might be, I'll continue to believe that they might just appreciate me as a customer and am trying to help. I think I've been fortunate that most of the craps dealers I've met appear to be genuinely good people working thankless jobs, and I'm happy to share some of my winnings with them. So I'll be the yang for all the yins out there and be perfectly content to do so. Of course, my mother said I was always a happy, low maintenance baby.

  19. #79
    Rob there is no true believer blockade. The reality is your arguments are faulty. You'll tip car valets, but you won't tip the slot people who have to take care of your paperwork so you can be paid your W2G jackpots.

    Frankly, I don't tip for non-W2G handpays, and at Rincon many of the $1 and $2 machines are set for handpays for $1,000 -- and I don't tip on those.

    Your reasoning is inconsistent, Rob, so try again. Tell me why slot floor people don't get tips but car valets do?

  20. #80
    Alan, regarding why Rob doesn't tip....I think you summed up his attitude and how he is (in general) quite well on post #67.

    There are all sorts of attitudes when it comes to tipping. Rob does it because he likes pissing off the casino employees. I imagine Rob finishing a gourmet meal that costs several hundred dollars per person. He gets the check, asks the waiter, "What's a sufficient tip do you think? 15%? 20%?" The waiter responds with something like "It's up to you, but most people tip about 20%" then Rob draws a big fat 0 on the check, then sits there for another 30 minutes, munching on bread and sipping water.....just to see how angry the waitstaff become.

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