Mlife

[regnis]

Having worked in the restaurant business for many years, that's a good way to get the "special cream soup" next time you come in. While servers don't stay at one place very long, they do have long memories.

[Rob.Singer]

Having worked in the restaurant business for many years, that's a good way to get the "special cream soup" next time you come in. While servers don't stay at one place very long, they do have long memories.

Regnis, Mr. Experience, aka RS__ , has shown to be wanting in yet another area of comprehension--reading everything prior to spouting off. Life experience should help him overcome that flaw.

I always tip food & beverage service staff and I probably give them more on avg. than anyone here. (And it's not because I don't want that special cream in my soup or dressing on my salad )

[Alan Mendelson]

Okay Rob, we understand you tip servers and car valets. Just try again to justify why the service performed with the W2G paperwork by slot attendants doesn't warrant a tip? Are you trying to get back at the casinos or punish the casino for following the tax laws? Are you aware of the paperwork that must be filed by the slot attendants AFTER they hand you the money? Did you know that they go to the office off the slot floor and type out all the details into the government forms? Do you fail to tip them because you think that is not your responsibility or this is your revenge on the system? Would you prefer that the casinos pay their slot attendants more and perhaps cut paytables more to cover that expense. Just explain more -- because to date your reasoning for not tipping slot attendants just doesn't make sense. Thanks.

[Dan Druff]

I actually agree with Rob regarding tipping handpays. It sucks that this has become customary. I still do it, because I don't want to be seen as the one asshole who won't (well, maybe one of two assholes if Rob is there). But I hate doing it.

Here is the problem with tipping casino employees:

They are not providing a service you could otherwise do yourself.

The restaurant server brings you food. You could stay at home and bring yourself food.

The valet parks your car. You could park your own car in a self-parking lot (or, at least, most of the time you can).

The bellman brings up your bags. You can always carry your own bags.

The cabbie drives you somewhere. You could have driven yourself.

In the case of casino employees, you cannot do any of their functions for yourself (aside from poker chip runners).

You cannot deal yourself cards while gambling for real money -- unless you are breaking the law.

You cannot take casino chips and convert them into cash yourself.

You cannot perform a handpay for yourself when you hit a $1200+ payout on a machine.

So this is where a "service" is separated from "people simply doing their jobs".

So why is there casino tipping?

This goes back many decades -- before any of us were old enough to gamble.

Tipping in the casino started out as something superstitious gamblers did. They believed that, if they tipped their blackjack dealer, they would somehow get better cards dealt to them. Others tipped simply because they were winning and felt like throwing money around to celebrate. But tipping wasn't originally considered customary or expected.

Over the years, this morphed into something you were expected to do, and you were treated like a jerk if you didn't tip.

Casinos were thrilled about this, as they could pay employees minimum wage, yet still acquire high-quality staff in those tipped positions, as the tips would far exceed their normal wages. An example? Wynn and Bellagio blackjack dealers make $90-100k per year!

The only reason you're tipping the handpay guy and NOT the guy who wipes up the men's room in the same casino is because the handpay guy is "giving" you money, while the janitor is not.

I also hate the fact that I'm expected to tip the handpay guy when he pays me $1200, despite the fact that I'm still down $3000 for the session after the handpay. At the very least, players shouldn't be expected to tip when they're losing in the session.

[redietz]

I actually agree with Rob more than I disagree regarding all of this. I'll tip drink servers and wait staff and even buffet service people, and I'll tip valet and bell personnel, but ticket writers and people delivering handpays? I may as well tip the IRS for sending me a refund.

The basic way I agree with Rob is that the structure of the income of people in a capitalist enterprise is not my concern. I didn't design it, I have no control over it, and I'm not going to allow it to lean on me and dictate my behavior. Let the casinos pay people what they should be paying people. If the consequence of that is pay tables get worse, swell, I won't play. No big deal. I'm not an addict. If a further consequence is that casinos somehow go out of business, I'm good with that, also.

[dannyj]

Dan and redietz, I agree. While I tip for all service, wait staff, dealers, etc. I hate tipping for a hand pay. I do it, (I dont want to be that 3rd asshole?) but I dont like it. Maybe next time I wont.

Red, I like your statement:
"I may as well tip the IRS for sending me a refund"

[jbjb]

...I may as well tip the IRS for sending me a refund...

You should be kicking yourself in the ass for giving them an interest free loan. I'd rather owe them a few bucks come April 15th.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan as you said you cannot give yourself a handpay. That is a service done only by casino personnel.

Rob won't even tip on hand pays.

I only tip slot personnel on W2G hand pays.

[jbjb]

Dan as you said you cannot give yourself a handpay. That is a service done only by casino personnel.

Rob won't even tip on hand pays.

I only tip slot personnel on W2G hand pays.

I believe he doesn't tip because it's a service he doesn't want, nor need. It's forced upon him and in that case, I agree.

[Alan Mendelson]

I believe he doesn't tip because it's a service he doesn't want, nor need. It's forced upon him and in that case, I agree.

Let's be clear: in the case of a W2G handpay you NEED the service otherwise you don't get the money. Just like your car that you dropped off at the valet -- you need that valet otherwise you don't get your car. And just like the waiter at Mesa Grill -- you need his service otherwise you don't eat.

Now Rob knows he needs the service of slot floor people when he hits those $50,000 handpays and he still says he doesn't tip?

Again what's the difference between the slot person and the waiter? You need them both otherwise no money and no food.

Come on Rob. Make me understand why slot people aren't getting tipped by you after those $50,000 wins? You can't get the money yourself and that's their service!

[jbjb]

Let's be clear: in the case of a W2G handpay you NEED the service otherwise you don't get the money. Just like your car that you dropped off at the valet -- you need that valet otherwise you don't get your car. And just like the waiter at Mesa Grill -- you need his service otherwise you don't eat.

Now Rob knows he needs the service of slot floor people when he hits those $50,000 handpays and he still says he doesn't tip?

Again what's the difference between the slot person and the waiter? You need them both otherwise no money and no food.

Come on Rob. Make me understand why slot people aren't getting tipped by you after those $50,000 wins? You can't get the money yourself and that's their service!

There's a difference between "needing" something and "wanting" it. Obamacare is a prime example. I don't need nor want it but it's "forced" upon me for no reason at all.

These hand pays are forced on to you by the IRS. None of us want or need them. I'd rather the credits rack up and for me to keep playing.

[lpang]

First the owners pay a "living" wage.
I wonder if Nevada will pass a $15 minimum wage?
What would happen if California forces the Indians to pay $15 per hour?
They could pool tips and charge an administrative "fee" to cover the "cost".

Second, is there a second?
Maybe its to stop collusion and cheating.

[Alan Mendelson]

There's a difference between "needing" something and "wanting" it. Obamacare is a prime example. I don't need nor want it but it's "forced" upon me for no reason at all.

These hand pays are forced on to you by the IRS. None of us want or need them. I'd rather the credits rack up and for me to keep playing.

Well that's fine. I don't want W2Gs either, but that's the rule.

So again, why not tip? The service of a slot floor person is just like the service of the car valet. Rob Singer tips the car valet but not the slot floor person. I want Rob to explain that. If he says he's chip, then okay. If he says he wants to "get back" at the casinos, then okay. If he says he's a greedy SOB, then okay. But so far he hasn't made any sense in his explanation.

[jbjb]

I'm guessing because he purposely used the valet. Again, he's forced to get the w2-g

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm guessing because he purposely used the valet. Again, he's forced to get the w2-g

So it's his revenge against the system? He hasn't said that.

[jbjb]

He hasn't said much yet. I'm just making educated guesses why he doesn't.

[Rob.Singer]

Okay Rob, we understand you tip servers and car valets. Just try again to justify why the service performed with the W2G paperwork by slot attendants doesn't warrant a tip? Are you trying to get back at the casinos or punish the casino for following the tax laws? Are you aware of the paperwork that must be filed by the slot attendants AFTER they hand you the money? Did you know that they go to the office off the slot floor and type out all the details into the government forms? Do you fail to tip them because you think that is not your responsibility or this is your revenge on the system? Would you prefer that the casinos pay their slot attendants more and perhaps cut paytables more to cover that expense. Just explain more -- because to date your reasoning for not tipping slot attendants just doesn't make sense. Thanks.

There's no revenge or anger or dislike, and I couldn't't care less how much casino workers make. And I certainly don't care about why the casinos have to issue w2g's or if they are required to.

I simply don't tip these people because they are not providing me a service that I asked for. The fact that they are required to do it is of no concern of mine. Weaker people may feel they're obligated to tip, esp. because they're easily intimidated by uncomfortable situations since tipping is the standard on hand pays. But I'm not weak, and I'm in control of everything I do in a casino. If I weren't, I wouldn't go.

You don't agree--I get that, and you don't want to believe you're weak and easily intimidated. I've seen you write that you're not much of a catch. Therefore, I would expect someone like you to tip in every situation possible. The fact that you keep asking why I don't tip handpays when you do after I've said why four times leads me to believe you're finally beginning to feel foolish for throwing all that money away over the years. Good for you--you don't have to be and never should feel like you're intimidated into handing out free money after a handpay. They're taking advantage of you in a euphoric moment anyway. You like being the recipients of that, or would you rather be seen as a strong, self-controlled person who thinks things out first then chooses common sense. Look at it that way. Maybe you'll finally get it.

Dan, if you don't want to tip, don't tip! Why do you care what those people think about you? You want the casino's money; the casino wants yours, and they are part of the casino. Never worry what they think. They always have to pay you regardless. If they slow-pay because of it then just sit there, relax, occasionally smile, stretch a bit, and the money will arrive. I've weaned so many players away from the tip BS.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob you continue to say those who tip are weak. I think those who tip might be described using words such as generous, appreciative, sharing. I might also suggest that non-tippers are cheap, stingy, obnoxious.

You say it's a service you didn't ask for then why play those high denomination games? When you do play $25 video poker you are well aware that there are handpays and by playing those games you -- by default -- are asking for the service.

[Rob.Singer]

Not my concern, once again, that casinos have to interact on handpays.

You keep tipping--the floor people love to see you coming. Such great friendships built....Such a nice guy for thinking of their income inequality. OTOH, I'll keep everything I win and my family and I will enjoy it. Oh....those floor people who think I'm cheap and obnoxious? You can worry about that too. But please don't let it keep you awake on your next wedding night.

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob I think you are taking out on the employees your own failure for your bankruptcy and your hatred for casinos. You can't consider a casino as a place for entertainment and recreation and only as a place for you to take out your revenge.