Frank Scoblete on "pressing bets"

[Alan Mendelson]

Our Forum member and well known author Frank Scoblete just published a new column about pressing bets. And the bottom line of his article is simply this:

"Don’t press. It is a waste of your hard-won money."

I think it's the wrong advice. I think there are times when you should press -- and times when you almost have to press, just as there are times when you should lower your bets, or remove them or "turn the bets off" when you play.

My own strategy is to start pressing when I have already won my initial outlay so that I am theoretically "even" on the hand or play -- or in the case of craps -- when the shooter has already won back my money.

Here's an example at craps:

The point is 6 and I am at a $10 table with full odds on the point of 6. I have the following bets on the table:

$10 on 4; $10 on 5; point is 6 with $10 on pass + $50 odds; $12 on 8; $10 on 9, and $10 on 10.

The shooter on the second roll throws another 6 which pays $70 and I get my $50 odds back.

The shooter then establishes another point. I am not likely to bet full odds on the second point. That is a personal preference and I call it "profit protection." The shooter does throw some more "numbers" and they go into my rail as profit.

Once I have in my rail more than I have put out on the table I can begin pressing -- and I press slowly so that I always maintain a profit and continue to add to the profit.

Let's say the shooter throws a 10 which pays $18. I might use that $18 to add $6 to both the 6 and 8 and add $6 to my rail as profit.

That's how I press. It's the only way to build your profits when luck is on your side.

You can read the full article here:

http://scoblete.casinocitytimes.com/...ing-bets-64421

[regnis]

I agree with Alan that you have to press, although his way is too conservative for me. There is nothing worse in craps than standing around, prolonging your play by being conservative, and eventually getting ground up and out. There are few good rolls--when you find one, you must capitalize on it, and you can't do that without pressing. Otherwise, the small profit will be gone in no time with a succession of number-7 outs.

To me, it is definitely a hit and run game. If you do get the big hand, you better take advantage.

[jbjb]

The same could be said for any casino game, not just craps. In the end it's all the same, they fail.

[Alan Mendelson]

If you press too quickly you will only put more money on the table without recouping your initial bets.

[dicepunk]

Here's an example at craps:

The point is 6 and I am at a $10 table with full odds on the point of 6. I have the following bets on the table:

$10 on 4; $10 on 5; point is 6 with $10 on pass + $50 odds; $12 on 8; $10 on 9, and $10 on 10.

I agree, you have to press in order to take advantage of the longer rolls. It's okay to be conservative initially, but you better pounce when the opportunity avails itself.
Another play is to press aggressively on the outside numbers, stay conservative on the inside. Or vice versa. There are a whole lot of different ways to integrate a pressing strategy into your game.
The important thing is to capitalize on those rare opportunities. Or as regnis said, small profits evaporate quickly with a few consecutive point-seven outs.

[Alan Mendelson]

For the pressers: do you press the number that just hit, or do you press another number hoping it will hit?

[RS__]

Power press until your bet is 10x what it started as. Collect a time or two, keep power pressing, and collect again. Playing conservatively, in craps, is quite boring.

[Alan Mendelson]

Power press until your bet is 10x what it started as. Collect a time or two, keep power pressing, and collect again. Playing conservatively, in craps, is quite boring.

A bit aggressive for my blood. When do you start power pressing? And when you say "power pressing" do you mean a full press such as you have $10 on the 5 and it hits, do you press to $20?

[RS__]

A $10 five pays $14. You drop $1 and power press to $25.

[Alan Mendelson]

A $10 five pays $14. You drop $1 and power press to $25.

This means you are putting more money at risk even before you start to take back your original outlay. Not my style but I've seen it.

[FrankScoblete]

In a random game every roll of the dice is a unique event, not determined by anything that came before it. Therefore, betting $6 on the eight has the same chance of winning as betting $60 or $120 or $1,200 on the eight. So why not do those big bets from the very beginning? Why make a small bet at all? After all, when you press you are actually using your money to bet a lot more money. Same as using money you have just won.

Why wait to press since your chances of winning after a small win are the same as your chances of winning on that initial small wager?

There is no predictive factor in the fact that you just won a small bet or a large bet or any bet in a random game.

If you say to me, "I am throwing math to the wind and hoping I win a lot!" then that is fine. You are gambling; as in wishing and hoping. That I understand. But I do not understand thinking you have a better chance of winning what's coming up because of what just went down.

(I'd be happy to send anyone on this board a free copy of my new book I Am a Dice Controller: Inside the World of Advantage-Play Craps! Just send me your address and I will bet the book out ASAP. fscobe@optonline.net)

[bigfoot66]

Thanks for the generous offer Frank. I already bought the book on Amazon and am enjoying it.

[Alan Mendelson]

Hi Frank. I don't think anyone believes they have a better chance of winning when they press but the reality is we go to a craps table with a small amount of money hoping to win a lot. We can't win a lot unless we press.

[regnis]

The difference between just walking up and betting a large amount and increasing your bets (pressing) as you win is simply exposure. If you use Alan's approach you increase only after you have recouped your investment. So you are not at risk.

I am willing to take more risk so I will press on the second number hit where I have essentially cut my exposure in half.

It is the only way to win significant money and enough to cover the number-out rolls that inevitably eat you up.

Of course, if you want to walk up and put it all on one number for one roll, then there are better games and better choices for that bet.

[Alan Mendelson]

I never took a Golden Touch Craps class but if they were taught not to press I can understand why there is a lack of winners.

[regnis]

I just always remember the day I rolled 18 8's. They brought my buddy and me trays to hold all of our chips as the rails were too small. The rest of the table sat there with a $6.00 8 and made about a 200 bucks.

Used to like the old long tables at Flamingo.

[redietz]

Let's assume for a moment, correctly or not, that there is no real mathematical advantage to pressing bets. Regnis, Alan, and everybody -- what is your experience in terms of acquiring comps and being rated in terms of pressing bets versus not pressing? Have you found differences in how various houses treat you?

[Alan Mendelson]

Clearly the more money you have on the table the higher your rating. The important thing to do is to check with the floor person when you "cash out" or leave to be sure you were rated properly.

On my last visit to Caesars, I was playing on $10 tables with a "starting" bet of $52/54 across plus $10 pass with odds that ranged from $10 to $50 (I do not always bet full odds). At the most, my starting bet was $112 ($52 across plus $10 pass plus $50 odds) and I was rated as a $225 player.

[regnis]

Let's assume for a moment, correctly or not, that there is no real mathematical advantage to pressing bets. Regnis, Alan, and everybody -- what is your experience in terms of acquiring comps and being rated in terms of pressing bets versus not pressing? Have you found differences in how various houses treat you?

Before there were tier credits and all of this current BS, they had people watching the game who could visualize if you were a player or not. They didn't need a computer to tell them. Therefore, I always was fully comped with no limits or exceptions.

Only on one occasion did I question my rating --I could feel somehow that the guy was cheating me. And the guy said only your initial bet counts. He said "you expect me to give you credit for increases in your initial bet".

I called over the pit boss and straightened that out quickly. But otherwise, they just had to watch and it was all taken care of.
They don't even have enough people to watch and properly rate in craps anymore, so I don't believe they give proper credit for pressing today.

[Alan Mendelson]

Before Total Rewards I was RFB with $130/$135 across. Odds were not counted back then. Yes I pressed and my average was usually $265 bet.