Rincon September mailers??

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't have to call them. They read this.

[alpax]

I do not have nearly the kind of budget or income to play $400,000 coin in a month, I barely play $200,000 coin in on Jacks or Better spread out over the "entire year". With that kind of play, I'd expect the top of the line offers and treatment. It seems everyone is either an AP or a whale, and I do not exactly know the hatred towards Pechanga, that kind of play can put you in top status everywhere else.

If you are seriously considering ditching Rincon and Caesars Palace for options, Pala next door seems to be a good alternative. You can lower your play to $250k a month and still get into the highest tier on the Priviledges Card system introduced this year. People rave about the buffet at Pala, with the Elite Privileges card, you can eat twice a day for free without standing in a long line. I heard the VP is good there for high stakes. It takes 10,000 points every 3 months to be in Elite, each point is $75 coin in for video poker.

[Alan Mendelson]

For the record -- I haven't heard from the "marketing manager" or the "mailer manager" or even from my own host. Frankly, I didn't expect to hear from them either because what would they say? "Gee Alan, you gave us $400,000 of coin-in during the month but we can't tolerate that you only played $80 of free play one day."

Also for the record, I haven't been back to Rincon. I wonder if they ever lost a 7 Stars player over $80 of free play before?

On some other forums, and here, some have said that Rincon was correct in its decision to cut me off. Well, consider this:

During the month in question there was one day, or maybe two that I only played my free play. I was getting $80 of free play each week. But on other days during the month I played a monthly total of about $400,000 of coin-in.

The question really is this: must you play your own money ON THE SAME DAY that you use the free play? Clearly had I put the $400,000 of coin-in on the same day that I utilized the free play this "cut off" wouldn't have happened.

Now honestly -- is someone at Rincon a stupid idiot or not for cutting off $80/week of free play for a player who still put through $400,000 of coin-in a month?

Frankly, if that "free play" manager worked for me I'd fire his idiotic ass because what he did was this:

He took away 4 X $80 of free play a month with an expected value of $320 X 99.17% = $317.44

and he lost a player who was worth $400,000 of coin-in per month with an expected casino win of $400,000 X 0.83% = $3,320.

Rincon's management might not fire him, so I "fired him" by pledging NEVER to play there again.

[RS__]

You seriously did $400,000 coin in in one month??? $1 Aces n Faces, right?

[alpax]

I am not a supporter of Total Rewards or CET (out of respect to other members on this forum, I'll keep my hatred to myself), but I have found on various forums in regards to how much they dislike any player who consume their offers without any play in return even for a single day. I read in the past about a 7* stars member who built up good standing for years, and then it all just went away when the spouse used up the RFB benefit without play for a personal vacation other than for gambling a few times.

Now some places in Vegas offer free play as part of the RFB package and not standalone.

I said before, if you do $400,000 coin in of play and are not getting anywhere near the top of the line offers from a place, you will not be living up to the Best Buys credo by continuing. People can usually have their way with that kind of play, but to the casino, penny video slot players carry the most value to the house. I get a sense that your heart is still at Harrah's Southern California.

[Alan Mendelson]

You seriously did $400,000 coin in in one month??? $1 Aces n Faces, right?

No. I start at $1 and if I win I move up to $2 and then $5. I had some good runs and moved up to $5 and played a lot at those levels.

[Alan Mendelson]

I said before, if you do $400,000 coin in of play and are not getting anywhere near the top of the line offers from a place, you will not be living up to the Best Buys credo by continuing.

They've all been taking advantage of me. I just had a host call me from another company in Vegas offering free rooms for three nights and this time $500 of free play. Last time I played at his casino I was there for two nights and had about four hours of total play at $10 craps and $1 video poker.

[alpax]

People may have differing opinions on this, but to me it seems to be a good problem to have. What I am learning from all this is that casino hosts will take care of their premier players wherever they will go since it is all commission based. Then again I am not a premier player, I only have an assigned host at the Boyd gaming properties in Vegas now with the meager play I put in.

If you do continue to pursue playing at the Bellagio, I am sure you can get into their exclusive NOIR membership. It gives .14% each free play cashback and .14% comp usable at any MGM places. The highest publicly noted tier is Platinum which can be attained with 200k coin in within the annual period starting October 1st, it is at a rate of .13%

After the changes that happened this year with Total Rewards, Bob Dancer now uses 7* as a leisure benefit that will cost him less than the retail cost that comes from it (the Experiences trip and folio credit). He will do 10 Diamond in a Day runs on full pay jacks or better in Lake Tahoe/Reno for an EV loss of about minus $2500. The stuff gets from CET will be more than $2500. There are no worthy plays in Vegas according to his belief.

[Alan Mendelson]

While I like Bellagio and I like the offers they are giving me -- and offer me for the future -- I ran into a problem on my recent visit. The problem: I was not rated properly at craps. Bellagio still has floor people writing notes on a pad about the players' action. When my new host told me my "rated time" I knew there was a problem. About half of the time I played (and that would include average bet and buy-in) was not reported. However, when I told the host that I was not rated properly he said it didn't matter -- that the play I had was "enough."

[alpax]

My apologies, I've completely neglected your other favorite game which is craps. I've only had Video Poker in mind when I keep thinking about the $400k coin in. I do think your Video Poker play can solely get you good offers from MGM mLife resorts without the assist of craps, though I hope they rate you properly next time. The other place you've mentioned that you were considering was Red Rock which is run by Stations. Although it has a great Video Poker selection, a big winning session can get you no-mailed, a lot of Vegas locals talk about this to be true.

[Alan Mendelson]

Ironically at Red Rock I only played craps. I went there when my son was staying there to try the small, tall, all bet. No luck that time, but I liked the idea of it because it was easier to hit a winner than with the Fire Bet.

I was intrigued with the video poker at Red Rock but didn't play.

At Bellagio I didnt play much video poker and thats where I used the free play. They said free play could not be used at tables and that's actually fine with me.

[Alan Mendelson]

And you'll be back by the end of the month. As I've said many times before. You always come back.

September 17th. Still haven't been back.

[alpax]

Although the person is banned, not sure of the person's intent or what is gained from personally attacking you. Probably the person has followed these forums for a long time to make such remarks.

[Dan Druff]

After the changes that happened this year with Total Rewards, Bob Dancer now uses 7* as a leisure benefit that will cost him less than the retail cost that comes from it (the Experiences trip and folio credit). He will do 10 Diamond in a Day runs on full pay jacks or better in Lake Tahoe/Reno for an EV loss of about minus $2500. The stuff gets from CET will be more than $2500. There are no worthy plays in Vegas according to his belief.

Dancer is correct.

CET's Seven Stars program is the best "guaranteed benefits" program in the industry, meaning that once you have attained it, there are several worthwhile benefits that can be used regardless of future play. So if you find value in these benefits (cruise, free hotel rooms, $500 in free meals, etc), then it's worth the -EV to initially earn it.

[alpax]

Dancer is correct.

CET's Seven Stars program is the best "guaranteed benefits" program in the industry, meaning that once you have attained it, there are several worthwhile benefits that can be used regardless of future play. So if you find value in these benefits (cruise, free hotel rooms, $500 in free meals, etc), then it's worth the -EV to initially earn it.

I know you said "etc", but along with that $100 more in free meals (Diamond level), free rides to High Rollers, and no resort fees to go along with those free rooms.

Dancer's play at CET Vegas was 9/5 Jacks or Better before all these changes.

[Dan Druff]

I know you said "etc", but along with that $100 more in free meals (Diamond level), free rides to High Rollers, and no resort fees to go along with those free rooms.

Dancer's play at CET Vegas was 9/5 Jacks or Better before all these changes.

I'm surprised Dancer was playing 9/5. That's not a good game to be grinding if you're shooting for cheap Seven Stars.

That's a 98.45% game, meaning you're looking at a $7750 average loss when grinding the minimum play required for Seven Stars. The variance can make this especially brutal, making a $20k loss not uncommon! Ouch!

If you want to grind Seven Stars in western US CET casinos, you need to either go to Reno/Tahoe or Rincon.

[alpax]

It was one of those cases where mickey brought up, the machine had a higher theoretical loss rating than the house edge. Thus his profit was from the excessive free play offers.

[Dan Druff]

It was one of those cases where mickey brought up, the machine had a higher theoretical loss rating than the house edge. Thus his profit was from the excessive free play offers.

See, this is where I think Rob Singer is somewhat right about Dancer.

Many VP machines have higher theo ratings than the actual house edge. I found this out by simply asking hosts about my theo after my play, and in some cases it was several times higher than it should have been.

But did I get lucrative offers?

No.

Because your offers are based upon a lot of complex factors.

I think Dancer was just trying to find excuses to earn Seven Stars and justify its expense.

You need some pretty damn good offers to justify grinding out a $7700 expected loss with moderately high variance.

[RS__]

Dancer is not concerned (or at least says he is not) with variance. Look at his $100k loss at Palms' $1 10-play UX....or the 0.3% (0.9% if used as food/store stuff in Dec.) at South Point's QQ machines on 2x days...etc.

Caesar's used to be much better than it is now. Consider a game with a 5% theo and 1.5% HE. $200k coin in shows a $10k theo loss, but the EV for the player is -3k. If he gets $5k in free play a week and continues to play $200k every trip, then he's making $2k in EV per trip. Not great for most who don't have monster bankrolls. But for those who have gigantic BR's, it'd be an easy $2k/week, for someone like Dancer.

[Alan Mendelson]

Are you suggesting that $200K coin-in gets $5K free play from Caesars? No way. $500 in free play is more likely.