PROOF of dice influencing and dice control

[Alan Mendelson]

The naysayers -- those who say there is no such thing as dice influencing or dice control in the game of craps -- are always asking for proof that someone can really influence or "control" the dice.

I'd like to turn the question around. How can the naysayers prove no one has the ability to influence or control the dice in the game of craps?

I will submit to you that the naysayers can't -- probably because they never really tried or practiced. I will submit to you that even among those who have tried and practiced very few can actually do it. But to say that dice influencing and dice control is impossible or can't be done I think is absolutely wrong.

Personally, I don't like the name "dice control" because I don't think anyone actually "controls" dice to the point where they can roll certain numbers on demand with a legal throw. Sure, with a dice slide, which is an illegal throw, anything can be done.

But I do think dice can be influenced to limit the range of results after a legal throw has been made.

I also think that dice influencing has different levels.

Throwing two dice, having them hit the table and then hit the back wall is a certain amount of influence -- as opposed to throwing the dice and having them hit the table and then bounce out the front door of the casino.

I also think that dice influence to the extent that the dice are set and softly rolled to the back wall to limit the dice rotation is also very possible.

The naysayers, the critics of dice influencing and controlled throwing, are always asking for proof that it works. Well, show me proof that it can't work.

[Rob.Singer]

100% BS Alan. Laying the burden of proof upon those who simply do a common sense analysis of on the unproven physical abilities of people who claim and assert that certain things can be accomplished, only strengthens the arguments of those who don't believe in it.

[Alan Mendelson]

Two things, Rob Singer:

1. Show me proof that dice influencing can't work.
2. Show me proof that your Singer system(s) can work.

[FABismonte]

Hi Alan:

I do not know anyone who has been able to prove that dice influencing cannot work. However, I understand that some dice influencers have been barred. They were not cheaters who slide dice or delayed in picking up and rolling dice. So why were they barred by casinos? Perhaps they were on to something. Moreover, in my very unscientific observations, I have seen longer rolls for shooters who take care of their rolls and set and throw softly to hit the wall than shooters who fling them violently.

Sometimes after I had hit about three points as a shooter, I have had boxmen warn me to do something or they would take away the dice from me at the following casinos: (1) "Hit the opposite wall on the fly from now on!" - Boomtown Casino (near Reno); (2) "Throw the dice harder, it is a game of luck not skill." - Peppermill (Reno); (3) "Make sure the dice land in front of the pass line" - John Ascuaga's Nugget (Reno/Sparks). At all times, I picked up the dice, and set and threw within 3 seconds and hit the opposite wall and did not break any "rules" I knew of. Why would the box men do that if it is proven that dice influencing is impossible?

I am not trying to sell anything, and probably not a great dice influencer. But setting the dice to avoid sevens and throwing softy costs NOTHING more and cannot be disproved, so I say why not try it?

FAB

[RS__]

Alan, instead of always asking for proof, why don't you go out and do something? You got scammed just like everyone else. It sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work in reality. Possible? Yes. But it's just as possible as getting 18 yo's in a row. If you think about it...it's really not possible.

I think DI is a croc-of-poop. The guys who always try to influence the dice are old white guys, who wear the same clothes for several days straight, order coffee+water+diet coke (then tip the waitress the 30c he found on the ground)...sit there with their cigarettes not even playing waiting till it's their turn to shoot. Those were always the loudest "seven out!!" calls I've made. If these POS's are doing something right (DI), then there's something seriously wrong with this world.

[Alan Mendelson]

RS___ what makes you think the guys selling the books and selling the courses are really true dice influencers? There are con artists in all businesses. Heck, I've put a few "honest mortgage investment company executives" in federal prison.

Frankly, I've hung out with the original DI crowd and I was not impressed with their results. On the other hand, I've played with three others who I honestly think had the skill. One was a surgeon from Washington State and I played with him at Caesars several times. Then there was the "mystery" guy who I saw once at Caesars -- held the dice for about a half hour, took his big win and left. About a year ago I met a third player who had a very easy controlled throw with dice traveling together and gently hitting the back wall and bouncing off the back wall gently.

But that is not what I ask. I ask you or anyone else to prove to me that DI can't be possible. I can show you videos on YouTube that are not DI even though the participants claim they are. They aren't because the dice bounce too much and that violates what DI must be.

By the way, you also brought up the 18 yo's in a row. Yes, I was at Caesars when a RANDOM SHOOTER rolled 18 elevens in a row. There were three of us at the table and not one of us had a bet on the 11. Like the dealers we stood there in amazement. At least twice -- and it was probably three times -- the stickman examined the dice. And the 11s continued.

Over on the Wizard of Vegas forum the "math guys" all point to the one in mega billion chance of this happening (my exaggeration) but it did happen. The same way I put only $1,000 into a $25 video poker machine and hit two quads, one straight flush (at $5) and then a $100,000 royal. Stuff happens that's hard to believe.

There is a big difference between the chance of something happening and the fact that something did happen. So it was with the 18 yo's in a row and so it was with me getting that $100,000 royal so quickly and easily.

And, while we are on the subject... what about the odds of someone breaking up three queens with 3 cards to a royal and actually drawing a royal? Rob Singer did that -- and he has the nerve to criticize DI? That's a laugh.