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Thread: Small, all and tall first time player wins

  1. #1
    Partly because of Alan’s comments that Bellagio had a good craps game and that the Small, All and Tall (“SAT”) side bets are superior to the Fire Bet at CET properties, last week I found myself at the Bellagio at their craps pit. Let me first state that their pit had a nice concentration of craps tables and I did not feel they were too crowded together. I liked the set up better than at Ceasars Palace. There were box men at the Bellagio tables. I wonder if the use of a boxman was new given the recent craps scam leading to convictions http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...against-casino

    It was last Saturday at 2:00 PM and I found a table with a $10 minimum and four players. I was the fifth and took a position the first player to the stick’s right. An initial come out roll of five had just been made and I held my money and my player’s card in my hand expecting to wait until a point or a seven was made. Instead, the dealers asked me to drop my money and I handed over $500 in cash plus a players card. The boxman then asked if my name was [fill-in Wife’s name], and asked perhaps we had the same number. Actually our accounts are linked (cannot do that at CET) but our numbers are different so I handed off the wrong card by mistake. I apologized and sheepishly handed over my own card. I then placed $30 each on the six and eight and asked if I could place a bet on the SAT. I was told that I could only bet on the Tall as there was already a five hit. So I made a $10 bet on the Tall. I had never played the SAT bets before so I was learning. The next roll was a five so the pass line was paid. The next come out roll was a nine then a seven-out, so no hits for me.

    The next hand with a new shooter gave me an opportunity to make a bet of $5 each on the SAT boxes. I put $25 on the line and the point was a six. I placed double odds and the the eight for $30 as well, but after about three rolls which only hit the eight once, the seven showed up. At this point I was thinking, maybe nothing good will come of this craps session.

    The dice was passed off to another shooter on my left in a position perpendicular to the chip layout, was African American and took care to softly throw the dice but did not appear to be particularly set them. I again placed a $25 line bet and $5 each on the three SAT bets. The shooter also put $10 each on the SAT bets. There were another three other players at the table including a pretty blond on my right about 35 years old. A point of five was rolled and she placed her odds bet right next to her passline chips. The stickman said to her “you need to move your odds bet .” “here is at least three fingers in the gap” and help up his middle ring and pinky fingers in his right hand by way of illustration. She replied “That’s what she said!” I and a couple of other guys on the table (no other women playing) had a good chuckle. It was particularly funny because the joke was made by a pretty blond. She further stated “I couldn’t help saying it.”

    I placed double odds behind the line and $30 six and eight. The shooter then rolled about ten time hitting the six and the eight once and eventually hit the five along with a couple of the SAT numbers. On the next come out, I saw that the only “Smalls” left was the three, and there was a ten, eleven and twelve left on the Tall. The next come out was a ten and I again placed $50 odds. When the six and eight repeated I pressed them in increments of $12. Then the three was rolled and I was paid off on the Small bet. Frankly I had to look at the layout to see what the odds were but at 35 for 1, I was handed off $175 which I gladly accepted. The shooter was paid off for his $10 Small bet. I tried to rebet the Small but was told I could not. As the shooter was rolling about a total of 25 rolls, he was down to only the 12 before the Tall and the All were paid off. I soon was barely paying attention to my six and eight bets hope for the 12. Then up came “BOXCARS!” Unlike the Fire Bet, the Tall and All were paid right away. My mind was swimming as a stack of black and some green was handed off to me. I tipped the dealers after the hit. The shooter made twice what I made. Now that the SAT bets were paid, I was allowed to rebet. This time I put $10 each on the three bets.

    Two rolls later the ten was rolled and the pass line was paid. The blond then asked me how much I had bet on the SAT bets. I said $5 each or a total of $15. She then asked how much it paid off. Frankly I was new to this bet so I did not know so I asked the dealer how much. The response was “about $1,300.” The blond said, “$1,300 for a $15 bet is not bad.” I could not disagree.

    The next point was a nine and I put $100 on the odds. Unfortunately after three more rolls, the seven came up. I stayed for another shooter but nothing was hit.

    I then looked at my watch. I was at the table for 30 minutes and made a nice score so I colored out. Here is a photo of the chips I took. The SAT bet is still 7% or so house advantage but more than a third of the Fire Bet house advantage. I look forward to playing it in the future. Who knows if lightning will strike again. I will note that all my profits were largely because of the SAT bet.

    FABName:  Chips.jpg
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  2. #2
    Thanks for posting FAB and lightning will strike again. I've averaged payoffs on at least two shooters for some part of the STA bets on each of my trips there to Bellagio. And I hit the ALL my first time at Bellagio. What's so amazing about this bet -- and this seems to go over the heads of the WOV crowd -- is that you only have to hit each number once. With the Firebet and even with passline and come bets you have to hit each number twice to collect. It's hard enough hitting the 2 and 12 once, isn't it?

  3. #3
    Very exciting when the all hits. And when I get close, just like you I start to ignore every other bet.

    Last time I was in Vegas, I got one all and a bunch of close calls. Usually a 2 or 12 left. But on one I had just a 9 left, so laid against the 9. The dealer next to me said, "you've never hoped to loose $X bet so much". The 7 came up a few rolls later and my 9 was paid.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by RoeIncarnate View Post
    Last time I was in Vegas, I got one all and a bunch of close calls. Usually a 2 or 12 left. But on one I had just a 9 left, so laid against the 9. The dealer next to me said, "you've never hoped to loose $X bet so much". The 7 came up a few rolls later and my 9 was paid.
    Hi Roe:

    I was in Tahoe the last time I was going for the Fire Bet on the fifth number (it was a ten). I laid $400 against the ten. The dealer quipped that "Sorry to have you lose that lay bet." The ten was hit but since I had $5 bet, I was happy to get the $1,250 (at least) as a set off. The next unique point was the nine and if it hit I would have made $5,000. I laid $600 on it and unfortunately "won" the lay bet.

    Where in Vegas do you like to toss the bones?

    FAB

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by FABismonte View Post
    Hi Roe:

    I was in Tahoe the last time I was going for the Fire Bet on the fifth number (it was a ten). I laid $400 against the ten. The dealer quipped that "Sorry to have you lose that lay bet." The ten was hit but since I had $5 bet, I was happy to get the $1,250 (at least) as a set off. The next unique point was the nine and if it hit I would have made $5,000. I laid $600 on it and unfortunately "won" the lay bet.

    Where in Vegas do you like to toss the bones?

    FAB

    FAB,

    I too like to lay against the 5th & 6th fire points. For me (others may disagree) it makes good sense to lock up a nice win rather than risk "going for" a larger one.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by FABismonte View Post
    Hi Roe:

    Where in Vegas do you like to toss the bones?

    FAB
    Usually at Excalibur. I'm a low bank roll player and like the $5 tables. Also I find the crews there super friendly and fun to play with and they are usually pretty generous with my table rating there too. Drink service can be hit and miss though.

    If the tables are $10, then usually I return to the NYNY where I get free rooms.

    Where is your favorite FAB?

  7. #7
    Hi Roe:

    Until recently I like tables with Fire Bets but lower minimum bets than Ceasars Palace. So in Tahoe I like Harvey's and in Vegas I look to Bally's or Harrah's. But lately I have been looking favorably at Small, Tall, All tables at Bellagio. I am in a state of flux. But I really do not like Casino Royale as the one table is crowded, often with drunk twentysomethings, and the last time I was there, during a hot roll a I thought I saw a slightly cockeyed roll of 3 and 5 but the stickman called it a Seven and swept the dice right away with the stick despite my vocal protests. Then they allegedly looked at the cameras and said that it confirmed the ruling. I have no confidence that they even bothered to look.

    FAB

  8. #8
    Fab, one of our forum member Ahhcraps told how at Caesars Palace a dealer made a bad call causing a 7-out. The shooter had been rolling for some time so there were a lot of pressed-up bets on the table. When the stickman passed the dice, NO ONE would roll. It was a "players strike" and it went on for some time.

    Caesars now has $10 tables with the FireBet. The $5 table in the Forum casino does not have the Fire Bet.

  9. #9
    I have previously mentioned the time that we were in a pretty good roll at craps. There was a spinner--the stick called 7 out and went to sweep the dice away. I grabbed his stick and after the one die stopped spinning the call should have been 10. I demanded that they call the gaming board before proceeding. In the meantime I took names and phone numbers of some of the other players.

    The rep from the gaming board didn't have a clue and they scooped up all the chips. I filed an administrative challenge with the Indiana gaming board and summarily lost. I filed an appeal and was finally taken seriously. I demanded that they produce the tape which they couldn't do. I threatened to go to the press. They finally agreed that the dice had set on 10--they claimed that the guy at the end of the table pounded on the cushion causing the dice to flip. I argued that the same thing happens on every roll and they can't just choose to change that one roll.

    Finally they agreed to give me back the amount that I had on the table. They had no idea and I of course tripled the exact amount. I received a check a few weeks later. I don't know if any of the other players followed through on their own.

    I stayed away from that casino for several years. I was greeted very cordially when I returned. That stick was still there and I will not play at his table or tip because he would get a share.

    OOOPs--I guess I just violated the non-disclosure agreement that I agreed to sign.

  10. #10
    I don't know who you are or what casino it was. Your NDA is safe.

  11. #11

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