What is my "long term" for video poker?

[arcimede$]

I haven't made any silly assertions, I have read what you have written on this forum and see mainly insults and wise cracks.
What value does that add to the discussions?... it looks to me that you are here to insult and pick fights with Alan and Rob.

LOL. You gave away your intentions right away. I haven't been insulting, I have simply provided facts. It is not an insult to call someone mathematically illiterate if what they are saying is evidence of that fact. If you really cared about the facts you would check into whether my statements were true or false. You made no such effort.

Because he did not provide proof of his claims doesn't prove that he lied.

None of your 7 examples provide evidence that he lied...all are pretty weak examples.

More evidence of your true goals. The man told obvious lies and you say it is not proof?

For instance, I worked as an engineer during summers through college, my job title was "engineer",
but I had no engineering degree...I was a student. Is there some kind of lie there?

Well, the only schooling I could see was from an Art institute. Not exactly engineering. However, Singer made many claims about her pulling in 6 figures as an engineer, etc. The only reason you might have to defend him is you have some kind of relationship.

I have no connection to Rob....your suspicions are likely due to your own paranoia.

Perhaps you are duplicitous, so you assume that everyone else is too.

Yeah, right. You bounce in here and start defending Singer and attacking me. Did you really think it wasn't completely obvious?

[jbjb]

Where's Jerry Logan when you need him??? LOL

[coach belly]

Look, my return this year is 101.4% on the OEJ game.

Are you willing or able to provide proof of these results ?

How about providing your tax returns to verify that you have profited from gambling this year...or any year?

If not, then should you be presumed to be lying about everything?

[Alan Mendelson]

By the way, here's the paytable for One Eyed Jacks at Bellagio. I took this photo a couple of weeks ago but forgot to post.

[arcimede$]

Alan, that game pays back around 97% at best. Typical pay table for LV.

[arcimede$]

Are you willing or able to provide proof of these results ?

How about providing your tax returns to verify that you have profited from gambling this year...or any year?

If not, then should you be presumed to be lying about everything?

I was willing to send Alan my tax forms as long as Singer did the same. I had all the forms filled out ready to go. Alan decided he didn't want to see any of them but that was after Singer has obviously backed down. However, that is not the point. Singer is the one making anti-science claims. Don't you think he should support his claims.

PS. As for seeing my tax returns you'll have to wait till I file next April.

[jbjb]

That OEJ in Alan's picture is 96.9703%

[coach belly]

I was willing to send Alan my tax forms as long as Singer did the same.

What do Singer's tax forms have to do with whether or not YOU can prove YOUR results?

Can you prove YOUR claim "my return this year is 101.4% on the OEJ game"
...or should you be presumed to be lying about it?

[redietz]

Anybody can claim anything on the internet regarding personal matters. What is said about objective non-personal reality and math in general, however, is something else. Has anything arci said regarding video poker return and the math of game play been demonstrably wrong? Is anything Rob said demonstrably wrong?

Rob has never directly addressed the criticism that nobody with a doctorate in mathematics will agree with him or validate his claims. He did, however say that three mathematicians reviewed his strategies. I'm not sure if he mentioned the credentials of these people. He never provided followup information or the names of those mathematicians. Now one would suspect that there would be some consensus among professional mathematicians regarding whether what Rob does is sound. So it's logical to think that if more math guys look at Rob's strategies, then they should approve and agree with them. Rob has not sought this kind of validation. That's okay -- it just means Rob wants to keep his strategies to himself. But Rob is sharing them on this and other forums. So why would he want the public to have knowledge of what he has crafted, but he doesn't want mathematicians to look at it?

It's an interesting question. Maybe he had a bad math teacher as a child, and he hates people with math degrees.

[slingshot]

[QUOTE=arcimede$;33308]Get serious. Singer has been claiming for years that you can't win as an AP. Pure nonsense. He claims his special plays make a difference. Math tells us they don't.[/QUO
I experience it every time I go-special plays ABSOLUTELY make a difference. AP's CAN win-with luck and being at the right spot at the right time-he has ALWAYS said luck plays and important part. Math CANNOT define whether one can win on a certain hand and the only math I use is subtracting my losses from my wins. I prefer my computer over the casinos ANY time-it's a marvelous God-given gift (sorry Red} and the fact that I'm not tied down to a set of rules that I MUST follow gives me a sense of mental freedom that's inexplicable.

[RS__]

I think what Alan, Rob, and slingshot (and perhaps coach belly) are saying is that you CAN win if you're in the right position at the right time, with luck, etc. etc. Yes, we all know it's certainly possible to have a winning session while playing with a disadvantage. The more you play with a disadvantage, the more likely you are to be a loser.

LUCK should never play an important part in any winning system or strategy. Well, let me rephrase that -- assuming you don't get extremely unlucky, with a winning system, you should end up a winner. Luck plays no part in AP. You don't get lucky and win, like what these system guys are trying to sell. You win (with AP) because you're supposed to win.


Alan, without a doubt, you've been extremely lucky lately, hitting many royals as of late, especially with that $25 denom RF. I think you've accepted that. Then you go on to say "if the RNG doesn't cooperate, you're gonna lose" [not verbatim]. To me, it seems like you're saying it's ALL based on luck.


The problem with Rob is that he claims he has a winning system, yet it has not been verified. He said some mathematician friends of his looked over his strategy/strategies, told them what they thought, then he revised his strategies from there and that's what he uses. I don't think Rob has ever said his system has been mathematically verified to be a winner. *IF* whatever "wins" Rob is claiming to have had, I suspect 1 of 2 things: Either he did in fact win that much, but ran extremely well and got incredibly lucky. OR he's doing that made-up math stuff, where he double counts his wins but only half counts his losses....ya know, puts $1K in machine, wins $500, cashes out. Puts another $1K in, loses it, another $1K in, loses it. Walks away with a REAL loss of $1500...but in the books he writes a $500 win...because, well, that's how the system works apparently.

[Alan Mendelson]

It is luck. The skill is finding how to position yourself so the luck finds you.

Sometimes you skillfully get yourself in position but luck doesn't come.

[Rob.Singer]

I see arci is sore at me and is lashing out at someone else in an attempt to ease his pain . Boo-hoo-hoo! And he's back to his jealous hate mode telling lies about my wife again. Hmmm....might he be just a tad bit angry about the mathematical fact that she's actually preparing a meal for 10 tonight while his wife is decomposing?!

[jbjb]

There's no such thing as luck.

Once again, which one of these dealt hands is "lucky?" Being dealt a royal in hearts or being dealt As, 4c, 6d, Jh, 10d. Neither! Both are equally likely!! One just happens to pay more than the other.

Do casinos rely on "luck?" No! They have an advantage. And that's why that profit. Just like I do during advantage play.

Civilians, ploppies or whatever will never ever understand this that's why they'll never get ahead and STAY AHEAD!!

[Rob.Singer]

I think what Alan, Rob, and slingshot (and perhaps coach belly) are saying is that you CAN win if you're in the right position at the right time, with luck, etc. etc. Yes, we all know it's certainly possible to have a winning session while playing with a disadvantage. The more you play with a disadvantage, the more likely you are to be a loser.

LUCK should never play an important part in any winning system or strategy. Well, let me rephrase that -- assuming you don't get extremely unlucky, with a winning system, you should end up a winner. Luck plays no part in AP. You don't get lucky and win, like what these system guys are trying to sell. You win (with AP) because you're supposed to win.


Alan, without a doubt, you've been extremely lucky lately, hitting many royals as of late, especially with that $25 denom RF. I think you've accepted that. Then you go on to say "if the RNG doesn't cooperate, you're gonna lose" [not verbatim]. To me, it seems like you're saying it's ALL based on luck.


The problem with Rob is that he claims he has a winning system, yet it has not been verified. He said some mathematician friends of his looked over his strategy/strategies, told them what they thought, then he revised his strategies from there and that's what he uses. I don't think Rob has ever said his system has been mathematically verified to be a winner. *IF* whatever "wins" Rob is claiming to have had, I suspect 1 of 2 things: Either he did in fact win that much, but ran extremely well and got incredibly lucky. OR he's doing that made-up math stuff, where he double counts his wins but only half counts his losses....ya know, puts $1K in machine, wins $500, cashes out. Puts another $1K in, loses it, another $1K in, loses it. Walks away with a REAL loss of $1500...but in the books he writes a $500 win...because, well, that's how the system works apparently.

After reading that I have to wonder if you really do play vp--or are what I suspect you are: just another armchair, book-reading AP.

"AP's" win because they're suppose to win". Hahaha. I guess that's why self-announcing "winners" like arci, Dancer, Jean Scott etc. just keep getting invited back to the same places to keep taking casino money at will, year after year, and the slot club freebies just keep adding up! Show us the sense behind that, then apply Business 101 to it. Then wise up.

So have you ever seen one of these AP's either SHOW PROOF THAT THEY'VE WON OR OFFER TO SHOW PROOF THAT THEY'VE WON? In fact, the only proof I've ever seen is my own failure as an AP, and wizard's admission to me that he failed at apvp. The rest of you just make silly claims because it makes you feel good. And arci with his mythical offer to supply returns. He'd no sooner do that then invite me over to dinner next August 14th!

[Rob.Singer]

There's no such thing as luck.

Once again, which one of these dealt hands is "lucky?" Being dealt a royal in hearts or being dealt As, 4c, 6d, Jh, 10d. Neither! Both are equally likely!! One just happens to pay more than the other.

Do casinos rely on "luck?" No! They have an advantage. And that's why that profit. Just like I do during advantage play.

Civilians, ploppies or whatever will never ever understand this that's why they'll never get ahead and STAY AHEAD!!

Amazing that hacks get so confused within themselves.

Now Alan's royal wasn't lucky. A razgu is just as lucky. COME ON MAN!!

Can you prove you win with "advantage play"? I'll bet the only thing you can prove is you can't win with relationships. Heck, Dancer can prove that. I'll bet your anonymous buddy RS__ can prove it. And we KNOW arci can certainly prove it.

[jbjb]

Yes I can prove it. Also not in a relationship nor do I to be. I'd rather boot them out at night.

[RS__]

Amazing that hacks get so confused within themselves.
....
Can you prove you win with "advantage play"?

Yes, it's called math. And it's fairly easy to do, actually.

I'm starting to think Rob is so deep in his lies and beliefs, that he's now believing the lies!

I guess that's why self-announcing "winners" like arci, Dancer, Jean Scott etc. just keep getting invited back to the same places to keep taking casino money at will, year after year, and the slot club freebies just keep adding up! Show us the sense behind that, then apply Business 101 to it.

And we all know casinos don't often do the correct "business 101" thing. As a wise man once said, "One day I was with a friend and we were crossing a street. I looked both ways, to make sure no cars were coming. He said, 'Why would you look that way, it's a one way street?' - That's the stupidest question I've ever heard." I'm sure this'll go right over Rob & Alan's head.

[coach belly]

Maybe he had a bad math teacher as a child, and he hates people with math degrees.

Has arcimedes claimed to be a mathematician? Has he provided proof that he earned any degrees in mathematics?

I'm new to these discussions, perhaps this was verified earlier, please send a link to where I can find this information.

Otherwise...should we just take his word for it, or should we presume that he is lying?

[Alan Mendelson]

I know of one advantage player who got cut off by a casino: me at Rincon.