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Thread: Did I ever show a profit?

  1. #1
    I am starting a thread to record for everyone here how many sessions I showed a profit from playing video poker or craps or any casino game. The point of this thread, and record, is to show that it is possible that you can quit when ahead. I concede that you and I aren't really quitting -- we are just suspending our play until our next session. But as the profits from each session add up (and I am using a calendar day to define a session) you can have an overall gain or profit.

    This is something that Rob Singer has advocated for so long, and has been discussed in other threads.

    11/4/15 Bellagio I had $1,000 of free play. I ran the free play through $1/coin 7/5 Bonus poker. On the very first play I got two-pair which paid $10 for my $5 bet -- and that established a profit at some point during the session. After running the $1,000 of free play through, I cashed out $970. See the photo below.

    Then we went to dinner. While waiting for our reservation I played a Double-Double Bonus game which required 50-cents per bet and hit a hand pay for $400 with $100 in the machine. There was a net gain of $300. Curiously, this $400 payoff required a handpay. Heaven knows why? See the photo below.

    We did not play any more on this date.

    11/5/15 Bellagio Another session when I had a profit and finished with a profit. A dealt royal flush sealed the deal on their $5 progressive. I will write more about this on the Big Casino Wins and Jackpots thread. See the photo below.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  2. #2
    I profit every free play session. Only count real cash sessions.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I profit every free play session. Only count real cash sessions.
    And I never touched "my cash" on this trip. I arrived in Vegas with $82 in my wallet and the rest happened because of that $970 I cashed out of free play.

  4. #4
    Good deal!!

  5. #5
    After a while Alan, regardless of your good intentions, those who don't understand that you can win on any 7/5 BP game just as much as you can win on an 8/5, 9/5, or 10/5 version, will begin saying you're not telling them the whole story. Why? Because they just don't want it to be that way since it doesn't fit their narrative. My experience with this behavior is unmatched, from my GT years complete with pictures, phone calls, and w2g's. If they don't want it to be, it just isn't.

  6. #6
    If he's still in the hole after all these years gambling, he doesn't have a "win" or "profits." He's still a net loser. I wonder how any business would stay afloat if they made $50 one day and the following lost $75 and had this trend continue. Doesn't seem "profitable" to me.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I profit every free play session. Only count real cash sessions.
    For what it's worth regarding counting free play...I went to Rincon today with $920 worth of freeplay. Came home with $14,000. I'll count that as profit anyday.

  8. #8
    Anyone that doesn't profit from a free play "session" is doing something wrong. I meant for Alan or anyone that says they're ahead a certain percentage of sessions to only count "cash" sessions. Free play sessions should be 100% unless it's some tiny amount.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
    For what it's worth regarding counting free play...I went to Rincon today with $920 worth of freeplay. Came home with $14,000. I'll count that as profit anyday.
    I gotta hear more about this!!!!! And a month from now will they cut off your offers because you didn't use your own money?

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I profit every free play session. Only count real cash sessions.
    On 11/4 I started with free play. On 11/5 I used my cash. Do you not include 11/5 because the cash came from the free play on the calendar day before?

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    If he's still in the hole after all these years gambling, he doesn't have a "win" or "profits." He's still a net loser. I wonder how any business would stay afloat if they made $50 one day and the following lost $75 and had this trend continue. Doesn't seem "profitable" to me.
    You're confusing playing professionally for a living with playing for fun and entertainment. No business would continue on if they didn't make a profit. If Alan began gambling last year losing $125,000 and ends this year +$90,000, he's profitted and is now up $90,000. What happened last year has no bearing whatsoever on this year because fresh income from other sources always replenished his living. He does not use a strict "gambling only bankroll" that absolutely MUST not be lost or he's "out of business".

    On your other point about free play being a 100% profitting situation: plenty of AP's & others take free play into their sessions and end up losing more than the free play amount for the day. Did they do anything "wrong"? Nope.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    On 11/4 I started with free play. On 11/5 I used my cash. Do you not include 11/5 because the cash came from the free play on the calendar day before?
    A session should just be defined as a starting point and a stopping point. I would consider what you did two seperate sessions.

  13. #13
    Last year and all other subsequent years have absolutely everything to do with it. Losing $125,000 then profiting $90,000 makes you a net $35,000 loser. This has nothing to do with transferring funds from other locations. We're talking strictly gambling. Now I have no doubt you're a net loser in casinos with your "fuzzy math."

  14. #14
    Well, if someone lost 200K as an AP, then won 500K as "not an AP but a pro," then lost more as a "not a pro," it's tough to keep tabs. Not everybody is an accountant.

  15. #15
    I don't care what your title is, recreational, AP, etc., losing more than winning no matter what the time frame is means you're still a LOSER!! Sure the IRS will look at it different but I sure as hell don't. Again in Rob's scenario, the casino STILL HAS $35,000 of MY MONEY therefore I'm a $35,000 loser.

  16. #16
    Doesn't Rob's "winning SPS system" use weird fuzzy math, too? I vaguely remember reading something like, "Once you get up X amount, cash out. Put the amount you're up in a separate pocket/location on you. This is a soft profit, meaning you're now guaranteed to leave the casino with a profit." Now, no matter what happens, our "winning system champion" can go lose all the rest of his money, but can claim he left a winner, as long as that "soft profit" of $5 stays in his left pocket, even if that $2K out of his right pocket is entirely lost.

  17. #17
    And he wonders why nobody takes him seriously...

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Last year and all other subsequent years have absolutely everything to do with it. Losing $125,000 then profiting $90,000 makes you a net $35,000 loser. This has nothing to do with transferring funds from other locations. We're talking strictly gambling. Now I have no doubt you're a net loser in casinos with your "fuzzy math."
    You didn't pay attention again. I clearly referred to Alan as an entertainment player. I was a professional player for 10+ years. Keeping track of my profiting, which never included anything other than machine wins and losses, was required because I was doing it for a living and with a gambling-only bankroll. And while you need my winning to be a function of some sort of "fuzzy math" I leave that up to the AP's who continuously self-value every slot club "freebie" available to make sure they can report a winning year almost every year.

    How do you know Alan doesn't feel he received $40,000 or more of entertainment enjoyment in the past two theoretical years? It's the same thing AP's do on a different scale. So saying he was a "net loser" of any amount is inaccurate, especially when he's ahead right now.

    Think outside that little blurry box. Reality: It's not what you think.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Doesn't Rob's "winning SPS system" use weird fuzzy math, too? I vaguely remember reading something like, "Once you get up X amount, cash out. Put the amount you're up in a separate pocket/location on you. This is a soft profit, meaning you're now guaranteed to leave the casino with a profit." Now, no matter what happens, our "winning system champion" can go lose all the rest of his money, but can claim he left a winner, as long as that "soft profit" of $5 stays in his left pocket, even if that $2K out of his right pocket is entirely lost.
    Confusion reigns again, which is common among those who have a very small idea of what SPS entails.

    The "soft profit" is simply used to complete a winning session of at least a $2500 profit if and when that happens, which it usually does, and it is never risked in the session. If I lose my credits and still have $2k or more (at times a LOT more than $2k which you won't understand either) of soft profits in my pocket, that's what's called a losing session....with one difference: it wasn't a total loss.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    A session should just be defined as a starting point and a stopping point. I would consider what you did two seperate sessions.
    Of course it was two separate sessions and with one session on two different days.

    How do you log your profits for the IRS since you don't lose? Do you keep a daily log or do you log multiple sessions per day if you take a break during the day?

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