Final Opportunity

[james40]

How is the information on a transcript in dispute?

"A tax return transcript shows most line items from the tax return that you filed. It also includes items from any accompanying forms and schedules that you filed. It doesn’t reflect any changes you or the IRS made after you filed your original return.

A tax account transcript includes your marital status, the type of return you filed, your adjusted gross income and taxable income. It does include any changes that you or the IRS made to your tax return after you filed it.

You can get your free transcripts immediately online. You can also get them by phone, by mail or by fax within five to 10 days from the time IRS receives your request."

[a2a3dseddie]

Thanks James. Welcome to the Forum!

[dannyj]

How do you figure that?

Rob has committed to sending full tax returns, that means he's willing to pay the fees.

Arci is the one objecting to the returns...because of the fees.

The information on the tax returns is not in dispute, the information in the transcripts is in dispute.

Singer wants to send returns, arci wants to send transcripts.

It would be a slam dunk if arci would agree to sending returns...but he is being difficult.

So how about arci sends the transcripts, and Alan confirms that the information is sufficient ?

Coach,
I don't have a dog in this hunt. But it strikes me very odd, that since Rob started this thread yesterday, he has only posted twice on the matter to your 17 times. Are you his mouthpiece?

[Rob.Singer]

How do you figure that?

Rob has committed to sending full tax returns, that means he's willing to pay the fees.

Arci is the one objecting to the returns...because of the fees.

The information on the tax returns is not in dispute, the information in the transcripts is in dispute.

Singer wants to send returns, arci wants to send transcripts.

It would be a slam dunk if arci would agree to sending returns...but he is being difficult.

So how about arci sends the transcripts, and Alan confirms that the information is sufficient ?

Of course you're being sensible coach, but when you're dealing with an arci challenge that kind of thing goes out the window.

He's only insisting on transcripts because he knows I'm insisting on him doing what he said he would do from the start, and I repeat, transcripts are a clear cop-out leaving an abundance of wiggle room and are not what we want. And as I've said, if he doesn't want the full returns reviewed then he has a good reason for it. Hint: Now he's "printing them off and sending them to Alan" himself. Does that not send out any alarms to you? You can fall for this baloney Alan, but I'm not interested. If arci wants to do what he said and request full returns be sent to you, I will do the same. And if he's so interested in "free" then he should have never opened his mouth.

And people wonder why I say the fool's wife is in a far better place these days.....

Alan, a $350 dinner would be my pleasure, as would sending in a $500 cahsiers check to the IRS to do this in the intended way. I smell a rat when arci does all this dancing supposedly because of not being able to part with such a small amout of cash. Of course, one has to have it in the first place.

[coach belly]

The above information states that there are differences between tax returns and tax return transcripts.

And, transcripts are only available for the current year, and the past 3 years.

Returns are available for the current year, and the past 6 years.

So, clearly, returns are going to be required to satisfy this challenge.

[Alan Mendelson]

I sense that you are trying to wiggle out of this again...with Alan's help.

You don't believe that Rob will send his forms, Rob doesn't believe that you will send yours.

You call each other liars, so what do promises mean?

Rob promising that he will send his forms means nothing, just as you promising that you will send your forms means nothing.

Go ahead and send your forms, once Alan receives and reviews them then we have something to work with.

If you are waiting for Rob to answer, then you are just stalling.

Coach here is what you are missing:

Rob wants COPIES OF TAX RETURNS SENT.
Arc has pointed out that not all TAX RETURNS are still available.
Arc has pointed out that ALL tax return TRANSCRIPTS are available -- and as an added bonus, at NO cost.

We know that the TRANSCRIPTS contain the same info as the RETURNS that Rob is requiring.

Now, to sum it up:

Arc is sending me the transcripts via the IRS. The transcripts will come directly from the IRS. The transcripts will provide all of the information we need.

So the question is: will Rob now send in his transcripts knowing that they contain the same info, or will he use the "transcript excuse" to wiggle out of this?

My feeling is this:

I will receive Arc's transcripts from the IRS but Rob will say "but those are not copies of the tax returns!" And Rob will send in nothing saying Arc did not meet the conditions that Rob posted.

In the past Rob has set some unusual requirements for various challenges, including that $50-thousand be posted in escrow (if I recall). And you wonder why Rob's never had to present his proof before? No one could afford his challenge. Frankly, I wonder if anyone asked Rob to put up the $50,000 in escrow first?

[coach belly]

How is the information on a transcript in dispute?

"A tax return transcript shows most line items from the tax return that you filed. It also includes items from any accompanying forms and schedules that you filed. It doesn't reflect any changes you or the IRS made after you filed your original return.

You answer is contained within the passage you copied.

"Most" is not "all"...by definition some line items found on the return are excluded from the transcript...otherwise it would say "all line items".

Also, it's not clear that phrase "includes items" means all items.

[coach belly]

Coach,
I don't have a dog in this hunt. But it strikes me very odd, that since Rob started this thread yesterday, he has only posted twice on the matter to your 17 times. Are you his mouthpiece?

I was called out by arcimede$ to mediate the dispute, and I'm trying to force results and closure, but the parties are being difficult, so the effort is taking many posts.

Now, where is belly boy to save the day?

[Alan Mendelson]

Hint: Now he's "printing them off and sending them to Alan" himself. Does that not send out any alarms to you? You can fall for this baloney Alan, but I'm not interested.

Rob the TRANSCRIPTS are going to come to me directly from the IRS. I am going to open the envelope with a video camera running, and then I am going to post the video on YouTube so everyone can see that the transcripts came directly from the IRS. I will post the YouTube link here.

I will examine the TRANSCRIPTS and if they show wins and losses from gambling THAT IS ALL THE INFORMATION WE NEED.

To everyone on the forum: what do you think the chances are that the IRS TRANSCRIPTS do not include GAMBLING wins and losses?

[coach belly]

Arc has pointed out that ALL tax return TRANSCRIPTS are available -- and as an added bonus, at NO cost.

We know that the TRANSCRIPTS contain the same info as the RETURNS that Rob is requiring.

The transcripts will provide all of the information we need.

According to the information posted (above) from the IRS website, these statements made by you are incorrect.

You present them as facts...but they are NOT facts...they are uninformed and incorrect assumptions.

My feeling is this:

I will receive Arc's transcripts from the IRS but Rob will say "but those are not copies of the tax returns!" And Rob will send in nothing saying Arc did not meet the conditions that Rob posted.

Your feeling, huh?...so what's that...like a hunch?

How about you let it play out and see what happens, before you predict failure?

[dannyj]

To everyone on the forum: what do you think the chances are that the IRS TRANSCRIPTS do not include GAMBLING wins and losses?

That they NOT include gambling wins and losses? Zero.

[Alan Mendelson]

How is the information on a transcript in dispute?

"A tax return transcript shows most line items from the tax return that you filed. It also includes items from any accompanying forms and schedules that you filed.

Thanks for joining and for posting.

[Alan Mendelson]

According to the information posted (above) from the IRS website, these statements made by you are incorrect.

You present them as facts...but they are NOT facts...they are uninformed and incorrect assumptions.

Your feeling, huh?...so what's that...like a hunch?

How about you let it play out and see what happens, before you predict failure?

Rob Singer you can resolve this right now: will you accept the transcripts that come to me, sent by the IRS, if they show gambling wins and losses? (Only gambling wins and losses are being questioned here.)

[a2a3dseddie]

To everyone on the forum: what do you think the chances are that the IRS TRANSCRIPTS do not include GAMBLING wins and losses?

Rob's or Arci's?

[james40]

"It also includes items from any accompanying forms and schedules that you filed"

Aren't you looking for the information contained on the forms and schedules? The 1040 line 12 or 21 only contain numbers, the forms would give the details.

[redietz]

You know, I have a more important question than whether Rob will accept arci's transcripts (he won't) or whether Rob will send in his transcripts (he won't) or whether Rob will say that arci not wanting to shell out $350 proves that arci is wrong and he is correct (he will argue this).

If Rob whiffs on this, will he and his cohorts continue to argue the case for his methodology on this forum?

[slobdinger]

I was called out by arcimede$ to mediate the dispute....

Belly, you are as bad with the false premises as Rob is. Arci did not ask you to mediate. If he wanted a mediator do you really think he would pick you? Anyone with just a little intelligence knows his line "where is belly to save the day" is just sarcastic humor.

[coach belly]

Anyone with just a little intelligence knows his line "where is belly to save the day" is just sarcastic humor.

I agree, and anyone with just a little intelligence also knows that "I was called out by arcimede$ to mediate the dispute" is just sarcastic humor too.

So it looks like the joke's on you, dolt, thanks for confirming that you are a fool.

[coach belly]

If Rob whiffs on this, will he and his cohorts continue to argue the case for his methodology on this forum?

Who are the cohorts that have argued the case for his methodology?

[Alan Mendelson]

Let me summarize the situation as of this point at 1:50pm on 12/16/15:

We need a response from Rob Singer if he will accept the transcripts sent by the IRS to me if they show gambling wins and losses? At issue are not Rob's deductions -- and I think I made that clear. We want to see wins and losses from gambling only -- not travel, tips, books, meals, advertising, utilities, entertainment, etc.

Rob, what is your answer?

Coach -- DO NOT respond for Rob.