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Thread: CET confirms most Seven Stars benefits from 2015 will remain for 2016

  1. #41
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I heard something about a 99%+ Ultimate X machine in Flamingo, but I'm not sure it's still there, or where to find it.
    Someone reported a downgrade earlier this year on 7/5 Bonus Poker. If you were going that route, it is difficult to master (no training software for Ultimate X) and the variance is extremely high.

  2. #42
    Planet Hollywood has 9/5 JoB Double Super Times Pay, which is 98.95% return with more variance.

    That's as good as I could find for $10/tier in Vegas -- at least at high enough limits where earning 5000 tiers in a day is reasonable.

    There are apparently some 99% games like 8-5 BP at the Rio, but only $1 1-play, meaning you're going to have to spend all day there just to get to 2500 tiers.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  3. #43
    Originally Posted by alpax View Post
    Someone reported a downgrade earlier this year on 7/5 Bonus Poker. If you were going that route, it is difficult to master (no training software for Ultimate X) and the variance is extremely high.
    From what I can see, it's downgraded at Flamingo but still exists at Harrah's, but it's only $1 1-play there.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  4. #44
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Planet Hollywood has 9/5 JoB Double Super Times Pay, which is 98.95% return with more variance.

    That's as good as I could find for $10/tier in Vegas -- at least at high enough limits where earning 5000 tiers in a day is reasonable.

    There are apparently some 99% games like 8-5 BP at the Rio, but only $1 1-play, meaning you're going to have to spend all day there just to get to 2500 tiers.
    Double super times pay in theory has variance similar to ultimate X. So I would prefer the 8-5 Bonus Poker grind at the RIO in terms of bankroll requirements. 10 hours for Platinum in a Day should do it for the average person.

  5. #45
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Gee, the last time I looked the ratio of one dollar to 40-cents is the same as 10-cents to 4-cents.
    The ratio is not what matters. You can buy gum at the store (I think 5-piece pack, Juicy Fruit if my memory serves) for something like $0.39. But if we spent $1 on it -- who cares? Sure it's an extra 156% increase in price, but the amount is so small, it's negligible. Now let's say you're out buying a new car, beautiful Mercedez, you have done your research and the one you want is typically $50K. The car you see is for sale for $128K. Same brand, model, interior, etc. Yup, still a 156% increase....but it's not the same thing as paying an extra 156% for the pack of gum.

  6. #46
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    The ratio is not what matters.
    The ratio is all that matters. If I am shorted 6-tenths of one percent on a $10 purchase it's 6-cents.
    If I am shorted 6-tenths of one percent on a $1,000,000 purchase it's $6,000.
    Not a member, effective January 28, 2019

  7. #47
    I see both sides of this.

    I understand RS's point that a small overall difference in price/value is negligible, regardless of the percentage involved.

    However, I can see how a frequent player like Alan is annoyed that he would get shortchanged $300 RCs per $500k bet due to the change in RC award rate at better paying Vegas machines (if this is true, which I'm still not sure is).

    It's not like Alan is talking about being shortchanged $30 after a year of heavy gambling. I agree that's negligible and isn't worth whining about.

    However, let's say you play 9-6 JoB at Caesars exclusively, in order to earn 7*. It would take $1.25m worth of coin-in if played optimally, due to the 2.5x tier slowdown. Provided that RCs also slow at the same rate (as Alan claims), that's $750 worth of RCs you're losing.

    Will $750 break a gambler who can afford to play $1.25m worth of VP coin-in? No. But it's still $750, and it's still near 15% of the expected loss on that machine.

    That is NOT negligible, no matter which way you try to slice it.

    It's not major, but it's not negligible.

    But again, the biggest issue here is the slower tier accrual, as it requires 2.5x as much pay to reach Seven Stars, which is huge.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  8. #48
    Dan please stop questioning whether or not Reward Credits accrue at the same rate as earned Tier Points. They do. It says so right on the Total Rewards website. And if you have any doubts call any Total Rewards office and ask them.

    But to save you the call here are the links to the pages that spell it out -- that you get one Reward Credit for each Tier Point earned. Remember, Reward Credits are not added for Bonus Tier Points:

    For Reward Credits: https://www.totalrewards.com/content...l-rewards.html
    Key thing to see:
    Earn at least 1 Reward Credit for every $5 you play on a reel slot machine or $10 on a video poker machine. Some machines have lower earn rates and these games will be clearly marked with the different rate.

    For Tier Credits: https://www.totalrewards.com/content...l-rewards.html
    Key thing to see:
    Earn 1 Tier Credit for every $5 you play on a reel slot machine and for every $10 you play on a video poker machine. Some machines have lower earn rates and these games will be clearly marked with the different rate.
    Not a member, effective January 28, 2019

  9. #49
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I see both sides of this.

    I understand RS's point that a small overall difference in price/value is negligible, regardless of the percentage involved.

    However, I can see how a frequent player like Alan is annoyed that he would get shortchanged $300 RCs per $500k bet due to the change in RC award rate at better paying Vegas machines (if this is true, which I'm still not sure is).

    It's not like Alan is talking about being shortchanged $30 after a year of heavy gambling. I agree that's negligible and isn't worth whining about.

    However, let's say you play 9-6 JoB at Caesars exclusively, in order to earn 7*. It would take $1.25m worth of coin-in if played optimally, due to the 2.5x tier slowdown. Provided that RCs also slow at the same rate (as Alan claims), that's $750 worth of RCs you're losing.

    Will $750 break a gambler who can afford to play $1.25m worth of VP coin-in? No. But it's still $750, and it's still near 15% of the expected loss on that machine.

    That is NOT negligible, no matter which way you try to slice it.

    It's not major, but it's not negligible.

    But again, the biggest issue here is the slower tier accrual, as it requires 2.5x as much pay to reach Seven Stars, which is huge.
    Then we're back to square one.

    What if you had played 9/6/90 JOB, with a 0.0038% HE? EV is -$19. $300 is 1,578% of $19.....it seems significant because the HE is low.

    When you play worse games. Almost a $10k loss on 7/5 BP to reach 7 stars.


    0.06% is 6/10,000 or 3/5,000.

    Imagine winning one weekend at the casino. You stop by the bank and deposit your winnings before going home. You deposit $5,000. A day or 2 later it clears or whatever (I always used the ATM, so takes some time to add to account). But low and behold -- it only added $4,997.

    This is negligible.

  10. #50
    RS__ it seems to me you are including the return of the game with the value of your tier points and Reward Credits. Is that right?

    If so, we are not discussing the return of the game. We are talking about the cost of tier points and the cost of Reward Credits. In both cases, if you are playing a full pay machine that requires $25 per tier point and $25 per Reward Credit, then you are getting fewer tier points and fewer Reward Credits than if you were playing a game that gave you one tier point for $10 coin in and one Reward Credit for $10 coin in.

    And this has nothing to do with winning or losing when you play.

    Let me say this: Suppose you put through coin-in of $10,000 and broke even at the end of your session.

    If you played at a $10/tier point game and broke even you would have 1,000 tier points and 1,000 Reward Credits.
    If you played at a $25/tier point game and broke even you would have 400 tier points and 400 Reward Credits.

    That's all we're talking about here.
    Not a member, effective January 28, 2019

  11. #51
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Imagine winning one weekend at the casino. You stop by the bank and deposit your winnings before going home. You deposit $5,000. A day or 2 later it clears or whatever (I always used the ATM, so takes some time to add to account). But low and behold -- it only added $4,997.

    This is negligible.
    Negligible? I would call the bank and ask "what happened to my three dollars?"
    Not a member, effective January 28, 2019

  12. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    197
    So I'll mention a few things here:

    7/5 Bonus Poker w/ Ultimate X *is full pay* at 99.4%. The machines at Flamingo may have been downgraded or removed, but I played them in Jan. 2015 and they were $10 for 1 tier credit.

    There are still at least 10 VP machines in Atlantic City offering full-pay games, $10 for 1 tier credit. Denominations range from 25c to $5. In addition, you also get kiosk "bounce back" free play equal to 0.2% to 0.3% of your coin-in about 48-72 hours after you've finished playing.

    In Lake Tahoe, 9/6 JoB w/ Extra Draw Frenzy is the highest returning, non-progressive game at 99.62%. $10 for 1 tier credit.

  13. #53
    "There are still at least 10 VP machines in Atlantic City offering full-pay games, $10 for 1 tier credit. Denominations range from 25c to $5."

    I may be wrong but I think all those machines were changed this year.

  14. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    197
    Originally Posted by jetermacaw View Post
    "There are still at least 10 VP machines in Atlantic City offering full-pay games, $10 for 1 tier credit. Denominations range from 25c to $5."

    I may be wrong but I think all those machines were changed this year.
    All are still there as of today. I just played $2 single line 9/7 Triple Double Poker today ($10 for 1 TC) to finish renewing my Total Rewards tier.

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