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Thread: CET confirms most Seven Stars benefits from 2015 will remain for 2016

  1. #1
    Just got an e-mail from CET, which I assume most of you received, as well.

    Confirmed as 2016 Seven Stars benefits:

    - Guaranteed comp room (not clear if rules have changed though)
    - NCL cruise
    - Annual Trip ($1200 airfare and $500 folio credit not confirmed, but I'm guessing are likely to repeat)
    - Signature Event "with 4 dates to choose from"
    - Companion Card
    - Celebration dinner (no details give if will be the same)

    Diamond Aspirations dinner will return, as well.

    Remember that you can start redeeming your 2016 benefits on February 1.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  2. #2
    All well and good but I would rather see an announcement that the 8/5 Bonus video poker games in the high limit room gave 1 tier credit for every $10 coin-in instead of $25 coin-in.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    All well and good but I would rather see an announcement that the 8/5 Bonus video poker games in the high limit room gave 1 tier credit for every $10 coin-in instead of $25 coin-in.
    Why's that?

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Why's that?
    They require $25 coin-in per tier credit which means you are shortchanged on comps, tier score, Great Gift Wrap Up, and the whole ball of wax. Play anything full pay in Vegas you are short changed on comps.

    You're a dealer in Vegas... you don't know that?

    While the full pay table is supposed to compensate for that, the reality is if you play full pay games you are short changed by total rewards.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    They require $25 coin-in per tier credit which means you are shortchanged on comps, tier score, Great Gift Wrap Up, and the whole ball of wax. Play anything full pay in Vegas you are short changed on comps.

    You're a dealer in Vegas... you don't know that?

    While the full pay table is supposed to compensate for that, the reality is if you play full pay games you are short changed by total rewards.
    If you redeem your RCs for FP, you're giving up an extra 150% of FP. That sure sounds like a lot, but, if you do $1M coin in on $25/pt compared to $1M on $10/pt, you'd be getting $320 in FP instead of $800.

    Your comps are not based on how many points you have (unless you use your points to buy stuff, but even then, same thing as above, it doesn't even matter since it's such a small amount of your action, 0.1%). They are based on your theoretical loss.

    Yes, I know the difference between full-pay and poor pay tables, and you'll (usually) get better comps/kickbacks/etc. when playing the poor paytable games. I don't see what this has anything to do with me being a dealer in LV, though...


    I thought you were a big proponent against "playing for comps". If you didn't get comped, would you still play?

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    If you redeem your RCs for FP, you're giving up an extra 150% of FP.
    When I play in Vegas I use my comps for dining or shows or gift shop purchases if permitted. Never for free play. At Rincon where I didn't stay in the hotel I routinely used comp dollars to play -- but not if I knew a Vegas trip was coming up.

    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Your comps are not based on how many points you have (unless you use your points to buy stuff, but even then, same thing as above, it doesn't even matter since it's such a small amount of your action, 0.1%). They are based on your theoretical loss.
    No. Your Reward Credits are equal to your tier score earned in Vegas. You said you're a dealer, huh? Guess you don't know how Total Rewards works. If you earn 10,000 tier points you also get 10,000 Reward Credits. Theoretical loss and all that other "stuff" applies to offers you get in the mail or what you might squeeze out of your host.

    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Yes, I know the difference between full-pay and poor pay tables, and you'll (usually) get better comps/kickbacks/etc. when playing the poor paytable games. I don't see what this has anything to do with me being a dealer in LV, though...
    Right. You don't play under the Total Rewards system. Where do you play?


    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    I thought you were a big proponent against "playing for comps". If you didn't get comped, would you still play?
    I don't play for comps, but I certainly want the best comps I can get for my play. When I play 8/5 Bonus whether at $5, $10 or $25 I am being shorted what I would have gotten for the same coin-in at 7/5 Bonus. There were times I played 8/5 and never got a full house.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    They require $25 coin-in per tier credit which means you are shortchanged on comps, tier score, Great Gift Wrap Up, and the whole ball of wax. Play anything full pay in Vegas you are short changed on comps.

    You're a dealer in Vegas... you don't know that?

    While the full pay table is supposed to compensate for that, the reality is if you play full pay games you are short changed by total rewards.
    This is nothing new and is like this in a lot of locations.

  8. #8
    The corrupted term "full pay" drives me nuts. So if CET shifts 80% of their bonus machines to 7/5, then 7/5 becomes the new "full pay," since "full pay" refers to the most commonly available machine and not 100% payback. This kind of fluid lingo serving the casino's interests is very 1984. This week 8/5 is full pay. Next week 7/5 is full pay. Next year, maybe 6/5 is full pay.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    When I play in Vegas I use my comps for dining or shows or gift shop purchases if permitted. Never for free play. At Rincon where I didn't stay in the hotel I routinely used comp dollars to play -- but not if I knew a Vegas trip was coming up.



    No. Your Reward Credits are equal to your tier score earned in Vegas. You said you're a dealer, huh? Guess you don't know how Total Rewards works. If you earn 10,000 tier points you also get 10,000 Reward Credits. Theoretical loss and all that other "stuff" applies to offers you get in the mail or what you might squeeze out of your host.



    Right. You don't play under the Total Rewards system. Where do you play?




    I don't play for comps, but I certainly want the best comps I can get for my play. When I play 8/5 Bonus whether at $5, $10 or $25 I am being shorted what I would have gotten for the same coin-in at 7/5 Bonus. There were times I played 8/5 and never got a full house.
    I never said I was a dealer at any TR (Caesars) property. Like I asked before, what does me dealing have anything to do with how TR works?


    Almost all comps come from mail/online offers or through a host. A miniscule amount of comps come from reward credits.

    Are you really complaining about the reward credits thing? If you play on 7/5 BP, you get 0.1% back in RC comps. If you play 8/5 BP, you get back 0.04% in RC comps. The grand difference is a whopping 0.06%!!

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    The corrupted term "full pay" drives me nuts. So if CET shifts 80% of their bonus machines to 7/5, then 7/5 becomes the new "full pay," since "full pay" refers to the most commonly available machine and not 100% payback. This kind of fluid lingo serving the casino's interests is very 1984. This week 8/5 is full pay. Next week 7/5 is full pay. Next year, maybe 6/5 is full pay.
    This would be appropriate in a separate thread.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    I never said I was a dealer at any TR (Caesars) property. Like I asked before, what does me dealing have anything to do with how TR works?
    Well, for a start, you don't know how TR works.


    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Almost all comps come from mail/online offers or through a host. A miniscule amount of comps come from reward credits.
    Really? For my New Year's Eve trip I am getting:
    Free room (it comes from my tier score, having earned 7 Stars, making me entitled to my promotion).
    Two ticket to Celine (it comes from my tier score, having earned 7 Stars, making me entitled to my promotion).
    $500 7 Stars Experience Folio Credit (it comes from my tier score, having earned points above the basic 7 Stars requirement).
    $500 7 Stars Annual Dinner comps (it comes from my tier score, having earned 7 Stars, making me entitled to my promotion).
    $480 Reward Credits (it comes from play on previous trips and not using these Reward Credits for anything previously).

    My host had nothing to do with these offers. My theoretical had nothing to do with these offers. In fact, had I been playing 7/5 Bonus instead of 8/5 Bonus you could make the argument that I would have 2.5-times as much in Reward Credits.

    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Are you really complaining about the reward credits thing? If you play on 7/5 BP, you get 0.1% back in RC comps. If you play 8/5 BP, you get back 0.04% in RC comps. The grand difference is a whopping 0.06%!!
    If I were playing $500 a year, you're right -- 0.6 percent would mean nothing. But if a 7 Stars player puts through $1.5-million at video poker, that 0.6% in Reward Credits makes a difference. And if a 7 Stars Player put through, say, $6-million at video poker, the difference is a bit bigger, don't you think?

  12. #12
    Is it confirmed that you really get reduced RCs along with reduced tiers? I've rarely run play in those crap machines, so I'm not sure. But I'm not sure you're correct that 1 RC always equals 1 tier, Alan. It's possible that $50 of coin-in will earn you 5 RCs and 2 tiers in such machines.

    But putting that aside, even RCs are reduced by a factor of 2.5, I agree it's not negligible, but the bigger deal is the reduction of tier credits. It takes 2.5x as long to earn Seven Stars on those machines (which is VERY significant), and it also takes 2.5x longer to earn those experience credits for the Seven Stars Experiences (not as much of a big deal, but still something).

    But I guarantee that CET mainly did this in order to make it more difficult to grind Seven Stars with these machines. They just don't want you reaching Seven Stars with a $2k-ish theoretical loss.

    There are only 3 properties left with full pay (sorry redietz) VP which also gives a tier credit per $10: Rincon, New Orleans, and Tahoe.

    Rincon will probably kill theirs off fairly soon. I imagine they only keep theirs because nearby competition also has 99%+ games, but I think they are just about done catering to that type of customer.

    May stick around a bit longer at Tahoe and New Orleans, but I think this is on its way out, which will be the end of a lot of Seven Stars grinders such as myself.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  13. #13
    Yes, Dan. One Tier Point = One Reward Credit. You didn't know that????
    See: https://www.totalrewards.com/content...l-rewards.html

    And see: https://www.totalrewards.com/content...l-rewards.html which shows the same values for tier points and reward credits from your play.

    Earn at least 1 Reward Credit for every $5 you play on a reel slot machine or $10 on a video poker machine. Some machines have lower earn rates and these games will be clearly marked with the different rate.

    Oh... and the RCs do not come on the tier credit bonuses. ONLY on the "earned" tier credits.

    Same with Great Gift Wrap Up Points. 1 GGWU Point = 1 Earned Tier Point. So you are also penalized for the GGWU on the full pay machines.

  14. #14
    0.06% of $1M coin in is $600.

    That is [less than] ONE four of a kind (5's thru K's) on $5 BP.

    $1M coin in on a $5 game is 40,000 hands, or 50 hours of play (at 800 HPH).



    In other words: There is no difference.


    Originally Posted by Dan
    There are only 3 properties left with full pay (sorry redietz) VP which also gives a tier credit per $10: Rincon, New Orleans, and Tahoe.
    How do you define "full pay"? I'm certain of 3 other (TR/Caesars) properties that have $10/pt on full-pay VP. There are 2 others I'm fairly sure are still $10/pt, but could have been changed recently.
    Last edited by RS__; 12-22-2015 at 10:16 PM.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Yes, Dan. One Tier Point = One Reward Credit. You didn't know that????
    I knew that was true in MOST cases -- at standard machines where you earn one tier per $10 on VP and one tier per $5 on slots.

    But these new reduced-tier machines, I am not sure. Someone should verify this.

    I remember earlier in the year you reported that Rincon's Double Super Times Pay machine did NOT give you tier points on the 2 credit surcharge on a 5-credit play (that is, at a 5-play 50-cent machine, which was $17.50 per spin, you said I would only get comped and tiered based upon $12.50), but that turned out not to be true.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    0.06% of $1M coin in is $600.

    That is [less than] ONE four of a kind (5's thru K's) on $5 BP.

    $1M coin in on a $5 game is 40,000 hands, or 50 hours of play (at 800 HPH).



    In other words: There is no difference.
    I ran $500k of coin-in to earn my Seven Stars.

    Ignoring some of the RC promotional bonuses I got at Rincon, I earned $500 worth of RCs.

    Had I been earning them 2.5x slower, I would have earned $200 worth of RCs.

    That's $300 difference (which I know is what you said -- $600 per $1M coin).

    To me that's not insignificant, especially when the expected loss of $500k coin-in at 99.54% JoB is $2300, so $300 is 13% of that.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    0.06% of $1M coin in is $600.
    I'm going to guess that $600 is about half of a week's income for a Vegas craps dealer with tips.

    I am humored how you point out that $600 is less than one four of a kind (kings is your example) on $5 Bonus Poker.

    And for 7 Stars it's $1,500,000 of coin in on a 7/5 machine. On an 8/5 machine in Vegas it's 2.5-times that much.

    Edited to add: without bonuses.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I ran $500k of coin-in to earn my Seven Stars.

    Ignoring some of the RC promotional bonuses I got at Rincon, I earned $500 worth of RCs.

    Had I been earning them 2.5x slower, I would have earned $200 worth of RCs.

    That's $300 difference (which I know is what you said -- $600 per $1M coin).

    To me that's not insignificant, especially when the expected loss of $500k coin-in at 99.54% JoB is $2300, so $300 is 13% of that.
    Dan, RS___ is once again way over his head here.

  19. #19
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I knew that was true in MOST cases -- at standard machines where you earn one tier per $10 on VP and one tier per $5 on slots.

    But these new reduced-tier machines, I am not sure. Someone should verify this.
    Easily verified. You look at the read-out on the machines at Caesars.

    You might not know this, but several years ago, Caesars offered Reward Credit Bonuses for playing on high limit machines. Those "bonus reward credits" have been wiped out for a couple years now.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I'm going to guess that $600 is about half of a week's income for a Vegas craps dealer with tips.

    I am humored how you point out that $600 is less than one four of a kind (kings is your example) on $5 Bonus Poker.
    I'd say it's much closer to 1 week of income than half a week. I think it's kinda funny too. Gambling makes you (dull? or immune maybe?) to money. Just the other day I went to a casino with someone and we were about to play something -- test it out. He asked if I brought any money, I said not really maybe a little. I looked in my wallet, had about $2K. Yet, most people would be ecstatic if they had $2K in their wallet.

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