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Thread: Caesars Bankruptcy: The Value of Total Rewards.

  1. #1
    In various news reports about the bankruptcy of the unit of Caesars that includes Caesars Palace, and discussion that the rest of the Caesars company might be forced to also declare bankruptcy, there is sometimes mention about the Total Rewards players club program and how valuable it is.

    In another thread I wrote that I think Total Rewards has no real value to anyone but Caesars.

    I think it's worth discussing since Caesars is a publicly traded stock and there are others who invest in other gaming companies.

    So there are two quesitons: If you had to put a value on the Total Rewards program for the purpose of selling it in a bankruptcy, how much is it worth? And, if you bought it, what would you do with it?

    I maintain that the Total Rewards program is of no value to anyone except as a mailing and telephone list of casino gamblers with information about their credit and gambling habits. And that's something that really has limited value -- if any value at all.

    Other casino companies can create their own database of their own customers and as new customers join their programs they can add. Seeing what Caesars has or had is of no value.

    What about non-casino companies?

    If American Airlines bought the Total Rewards system they couldn't offer free hotel stays in any of the casino resorts. So again, American Airlines would only be buying a mailing list.

    If American Express bought the Total Rewards system they couldn't offer free play or show tickets to those on the list because Amex has no casinos and no showrooms. Why offer loss leaders when you don't have businesses to lead customers to?

    Now what about another casino company -- say Wynn, for example. If Wynn bought the Total Rewards system they wouldn't want to take on the liability of all of the comps and Reward Credits and "tier level privileges" that Caesars handed out for previous play. In other words -- Wynn would only value it as a mailing list, albeit a list of players and their spending habits. But does Wynn need it?

    So all you have left is a mailing list.

    This is why I think Total Rewards is worthless to anyone but Caesars. And I think investors and the media were sold a bill of goods that Total Rewards is any kind of valuable, marketable asset.

    If there is an asset (and I am taking a guess here) it's the software that analyzes player habits. But I have to ask, do you really have to buy Total Rewards to research your own data?

  2. #2
    TR is of little value to any type of buyer. Casinos would get far more meaningful info by working player background deals with CET hosts and other employees--which happens all the time--or by hiring them.

  3. #3
    What Rob mentioned would also be more economical.

  4. #4
    Do any of you realize how big of a base TR has? Alan you think it's just about a mailing & telephone list it's way more than that.
    It's the most valuable asset they own.....

  5. #5
    I don't disagree with Rob's ideas. But look at the real costs:

    Cost of hiring a host: $50,000.
    Cost of buying Total Rewards: $1.

    And... you get what you pay for.

  6. #6
    Alan

    I'm not sure what business you're in, but I ran a privately owned firm for 26 years.. We had 683 employees.. Every week we met our payroll, never late, never borrowed a penny from any banks...
    My Dad started the firm in 1961 with 4 people we grew when we could afford to. We sold the entire firm in 2012...

    The problem with Caesars is they are not spending their own money, thus their financial mess... They assume because they are well know people will just play at their properties..
    When I moved to Ohio they had ZERO casinos, drove to Wheeling and Southern Indiana...Now they have I think 10 casinos/racinos...
    People have many options... The "hard core" gambler can get any meal,show,sporting event, suite they want... The mom/pop are just happy with a hot dog and Coke... Thus the problem arises Caesars took their "hard core" players for granted.. They bought properties just to buy them, knowing damn well they'd run them into the ground.
    They can care less about their employees, morale is awful.

    The TR base IS a goldmine, just watch who buys it and the price they pay for it



    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    I don't disagree with Rob's ideas. But look at the real costs:

    Cost of hiring a host: $50,000.
    Cost of buying Total Rewards: $1.

    And... you get what you pay for.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse View Post
    Alan

    I'm not sure what business you're in
    What? If you posted this on WoV you would get suspended for a personal insult.
    Last edited by coach belly; 01-14-2016 at 04:14 PM.

  8. #8
    Coach Belly

    What insult was written, I truly have no idea what business Alan is in.... Very touch sone of you are WOW


    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    If you posted this on WoV you would get suspended for a personal insult.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse View Post
    Coach Belly

    What insult was written, I truly have no idea what business Alan is in.... Very touch sone of you are WOW
    Relax...it was a joke.

  10. #10
    Coach Belly

    OK, I mean the other day I questioned ace of spades and he/she got their balls in a uproar...
    This is a fun place to talk about things, never been a part of something like this... I don't do any social media i.e. Facebook or Twitter ...


    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Relax...it was a joke.

  11. #11
    LoneStar, you had no idea that AoS was highly sensitive about someone asking him what casino he frequents. He really freaked out about being stalked. I don't blame him. But no one can blame you for not knowing anything about it.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse View Post
    This is a fun place to talk about things
    This is one of the many forums @ AlanBestBuys

    Go to www.alanbestbuys.com and you can read all about Alan.

  13. #13
    slobdinger I appreciate your words on that subject

    Originally Posted by slobdinger View Post
    LoneStar, you had no idea that AoS was highly sensitive about someone asking him what casino he frequents. He really freaked out about being stalked. I don't blame him. But no one can blame you for not knowing anything about it.

  14. #14
    Interesting


    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    This is one of the many forums @ AlanBestBuys

    Go to www.alanbestbuys.com and you can read all about Alan.

  15. #15
    No one would pay a dime for Total Rewards because Total Rewards has no value without the Caesars Entertainment casinos. That's my point.

    It's like placing a value on "goodwill." Goodwill has no value to anyone but the company that says it has goodwill.

    I can't buy your Goodwill. And another company can't buy Total Rewards and make use of it.

    That means Total Rewards is worthless to anyone but Caesars.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by LoneStarHorse View Post
    Interesting
    Here...you'll get a kick out of this link

    http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html

  17. #17
    Please coach... since LoneStar is a businessman let this be his introduction to my main website:
    http://alanbestbuys.com/id201.html

  18. #18
    http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html

    It's still find it absolutely astonishing that the Rob Singer in those videos is the same Rob Singer that posts on this forum.
    Last edited by coach belly; 01-14-2016 at 04:54 PM.

  19. #19
    Alan

    Tell you what I'll make a wager with you my $500 to your $100 that "someone" pays a hefty price for TR within the next 150 days...




    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    No one would pay a dime for Total Rewards because Total Rewards has no value without the Caesars Entertainment casinos. That's my point.

    It's like placing a value on "goodwill." Goodwill has no value to anyone but the company that says it has goodwill.

    I can't buy your Goodwill. And another company can't buy Total Rewards and make use of it.

    That means Total Rewards is worthless to anyone but Caesars.

  20. #20
    Alan

    "Retired" businessman, now just volunteer for Habitat,Gamble,Daytrade, smoke good cigars...


    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Please coach... since LoneStar is a businessman let this be his introduction to my main website:
    http://alanbestbuys.com/id201.html

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