Caesars Bankruptcy: The Value of Total Rewards.

[Alan Mendelson]

http://alanbestbuys.com/id194.html

It's still find it absolutely astonishing that the Rob Singer in those videos is the same Rob Singer that posts on this forum.

"That Rob Singer" is not the same Rob Singer who posts in these forums. "That Rob Singer" is my friend. The Rob Singer who posts in these forums is a caricature of what I don't know.

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan

Tell you what I'll make a wager with you my $500 to your $100 that "someone" pays a hefty price for TR within the next 150 days...

Suppose someone does buy TR, then what? Does Caesars not have a players club program? Does Caesars wipe out Seven Stars, Diamonds, Platinum accounts? Do your tier points and Reward Credits vanish? Or do you overnight discover that you now have frequent flyer points with Southwest Airlines in lieu of everything, or you have timeshares with Trump?

[LoneStarHorse]

Alan

There is no "supposed" with this. Everyone in the industry knows it's Caesars last bargaining chip... Caesars will do what Rock Gaming is doing in Ohio. They are starting their new program soon, no more TR. In fact my host said offers will be better than ever, because Caesars doesn't tell them how to dool out the comps. Rock Gaming is grandfathering in every seven stars player into their top level membership. And will do the same for Diamond,Plstinum,Gold..
Your tier points convert to whatever new program they start with.

Caesars won't be able to make their first quarter payments without a major cash infusion. Their options are very limited

Suppose someone does buy TR, then what? Does Caesars not have a players club program? Does Caesars wipe out Seven Stars, Diamonds, Platinum accounts? Do your tier points and Reward Credits vanish? Or do you overnight discover that you now have frequent flyer points with Southwest Airlines in lieu of everything, or you have timeshares with Trump?

[Alan Mendelson]

But my point is this: "Total Rewards" has no value to anyone but Caesars. But if you disagree tell me who you think would buy and what they could do with the information and the obligations of the program?

Yes, I concede the information has a value -- but it's not enough value to make a sale worthwhile.

The value of Total Rewards has been over-hyped.

[LoneStarHorse]

Alan

I know who will be buying this program, the sale will be completed on or before June 30th 2016. This company will bring back TR to it's prominence once again. Just to add something along with the sale of TR 7 current Caesars properties will be sold also.. Thus giving this buyer immediate "brand" recognition

But my point is this: "Total Rewards" has no value to anyone but Caesars. But if you disagree tell me who you think would buy and what they could do with the information and the obligations of the program?

Yes, I concede the information has a value -- but it's not enough value to make a sale worthwhile.

The value of Total Rewards has been over-hyped.

[Alan Mendelson]

Only if it came with the sale of 7 Caesars properties (that's the number you gave LoneStar) would Total Rewards have any value.

[LoneStarHorse]

Alan

TR by itself has a huge value, but with 7 properties it's value increases. The people will know the property they are heading to and will immediately recognize the vast improvements...
You're a tough nut there Alan but keep your ear to the ground you'll hear the noise soon enough...

Only if it came with the sale of 7 Caesars properties (that's the number you gave LoneStar) would Total Rewards have any value.

[Alan Mendelson]

Yes, TR has a value with 7 casinos. TR will never have a value as a stand alone entity.

[Alan Mendelson]

Since we're talking about the assets of "Total Rewards" a few years ago I wrote an article about how casino and other company websites can become profit engines. This article was based on a proposal that I gave to the Venetian about ten years ago when I was talking to them about running their website:

http://alanbestbuys.com/id297.html

[james40]

I'm going to zero out whatever points I have on the books early spring. Just in case.

[Alan Mendelson]

I'm going to zero out whatever points I have on the books early spring. Just in case.

This is not a bad idea and I rarely carry over RCs from one trip to a future trip. The only exception was when I was saving up RCs for the long New Year's weekend. When New Year's Weekend was over and my room charges were all paid, I converted the remaining RCs to free play and cashed out a little "going home money."

I recalled when Caesars was bought out by Harrah's and my host then advised me to take all of my comp dollars (and I had well over a thousand dollars worth) and use them in the gift shops. That's what I did buying clothing, cologne, bathrobes, small electronics. He told me it wasn't clear what would happen to them in the buy-out.

It's a more precarious situation now -- and has been since the bankruptcy was filed. Even though Caesars management said points would be protected there was no guarantee then and there isn't now.

Right now in my TR account I have $9 worth of RCs.

I think it would be prudent for every player in TR not to carry over too many RCs regardless if TR and casinos are sold or not.

[LoneStarHorse]

Alan

Since you appear to be a fact finder do you know how many TR members there are????

[Dan Druff]

Totally disagree with Alan here.

Total Rewards contains a huge list of gamblers across the countries, and their tendencies. That's worth a fortune.

What about the "liabilities" for comps and RCs owed to these players?

That's not a liability. RCs can be taken away from you at any time, and they expire after 6 months if you don't continue earning them.

RCs and comps are a way to get you back down there to gamble in the FUTURE, resulting in a net win again for the casino.

[LoneStarHorse]

Dan

Finally someone who understands the facts

Totally disagree with Alan here.

Total Rewards contains a huge list of gamblers across the countries, and their tendencies. That's worth a fortune.

What about the "liabilities" for comps and RCs owed to these players?

That's not a liability. RCs can be taken away from you at any time, and they expire after 6 months if you don't continue earning them.

RCs and comps are a way to get you back down there to gamble in the FUTURE, resulting in a net win again for the casino.

[LoneStarHorse]

Here is my "ace up my sleeve"

Wall Street Journal 3/19/2015
The most valuable asset in the bitter bankruptcy feud at Caesars Entertainment Corp. isn’t the casino operator’s opulent Roman-themed resort at the heart of the Las Vegas Strip. It’s the company’s big-data customer loyalty program, valued at $1 billion by creditors.
the loyalty program has 45 million members

[BYLee291]

TR would have some value to another chain of casinos that would be interested in luring Seven Star, Diamond, and maybe Platinum, members to their hotels with better offers than currently offered by TR. If TR ceases to exist, then the buying casino could offer to pick up members at their current levels, which would appeal to TR players. There could be some overlap, but even this information would be useful to a purchasing casino: How much of a player's business are they not getting? I don't know how many Seven Star or Diamond members split their play between different casinos, I know a few do that in Las Vegas -- half their stay at a CES hotel, half at Bellagio or some other casino. I personally only stay at CES hotels when I'm in Las Vegas.

[LoneStarHorse]

BYLee291

I was like you only stayed and played at Caesars..but i can see the writing on the wall with them. This year I'm gong to explore other venues...
In the grand scheme of life Caesars can care less if I stop staying/playing with them... I've always been a man of principle in business and life. Over the past two years they've been cutting back their benefits for Seven Star players so why should I continue giving them my business... Especially when I have 100's of other choices

TR would have some value to another chain of casinos that would be interested in luring Seven Star, Diamond, and maybe Platinum, members to their hotels with better offers than currently offered by TR. If TR ceases to exist, then the buying casino could offer to pick up members at their current levels, which would appeal to TR players. There could be some overlap, but even this information would be useful to a purchasing casino: How much of a player's business are they not getting? I don't know how many Seven Star or Diamond members split their play between different casinos, I know a few do that in Las Vegas -- half their stay at a CES hotel, half at Bellagio or some other casino. I personally only stay at CES hotels when I'm in Las Vegas.

[redietz]

LoneStar,

I know very little about Seven Stars and TR, so I have a couple of questions.

Whenever there have been takeovers in the past, I have always been assured by people allegedly in the know that the comp programs would be better and improved under the new ownership and my previous stashed rewards would be boosted. That has never happened, and I have ceased expecting it to happen. When CET took over Caesars Palace, my stashed comps at Caesars were reduced by 60%. If I have stashed comps, I expect them to be slashed. What leads you to believe new ownership would improve TR?

Second, you mentioned the Cromwell in a previous post. Is the Cromwell part of the TR program right now? I ask because I've read reports that the video poker at the Cromwell was recently improved, making it arguably the best vp under CET if it is indeed part of TR.

[LoneStarHorse]

redietz

I will start with the Cromwell yes they are a TR property... I've found video poker to be very hot and cold there..l like playing table games at Cromwell nice clientele...

Currently we are going through a TR change in Ohio Rock Gaming has bought out Caesars. They are creating their own loyalty program and according to my host EVERY tier credit & RC will be given to you upon the changeover.. That will be coming in Mid April I've been told.. They are also granting us there top level status until the end of March 2017 once again until the change occurs I can't verify anything other than what I've been told..
Currently any tier points we are earning count towards Caesars and Rock Gaming... I'm sure things will be a cluster F once the change occurs... I suggest everyone screen shot their tier score and RCs just before the change over

LoneStar,

I know very little about Seven Stars and TR, so I have a couple of questions.

Whenever there have been takeovers in the past, I have always been assured by people allegedly in the know that the comp programs would be better and improved under the new ownership and my previous stashed rewards would be boosted. That has never happened, and I have ceased expecting it to happen. When CET took over Caesars Palace, my stashed comps at Caesars were reduced by 60%. If I have stashed comps, I expect them to be slashed. What leads you to believe new ownership would improve TR?

Second, you mentioned the Cromwell in a previous post. Is the Cromwell part of the TR program right now? I ask because I've read reports that the video poker at the Cromwell was recently improved, making it arguably the best vp under CET if it is indeed part of TR.

[LoneStarHorse]

Total Rewards IS the single most valuable asset under dispute in the bankruptcy fight. This is according to the creditors valuations